Published on 12, July, 2020
Thought things were gettng better when he started on medication but its just as bad as before now.
!4 years old behaviour is just appaling. It affects everyone in the family. His 4 year old sister. His mum has fibromyalgia which is getting worse.
He uses every trick in the book to get what he wants now. He lies constantly, hes manipulative. Whatever you tell him he just does what he wants anyway. Hes also started using his illness OCD as an excuse not to do things. He also deveopled strange new things like spraying anti-bac spray onto his bits after using the toilet (which is not good).
Also, apparently its all our fault as parents because we made him like this by stressing him out all the time.
Constant letters from school now about homework etc.
Hes done none of the homework given to him by counsellor. Basically, makes zero effort to help himself. Seems happy to just go along as he is, shout at everyone and get his own way. Counsellor has pretty much said to us that she can do no more him until he decides to help himself.
We're been trying to treat him fairly but still sticking to basic house rules. Nothing too difficult. Just put things back, consideration for others (inc dont use all the hot water every day in the shower for an hour!), no shouting and screaming, homework gets done. Thats it. Nowhere near at the moment.
Are we taking the right approach? I guess we should still have rules in the house.
Things we have problem with at the moment:-
1. Homework. "Forgets" to do. Lies that he didnt have homework.
2. Hot water. Uses it all 45-60 min showers. Tried to make rule 10 min max - never sticks to it. What do we do physically supervise a 14 year old?
3. Leaving toilet in a mess. Has so far ruined one floor, one toilet by hosing with water/anti-bac spray. Constantly leaves EVERY surface with spray on. Wont stop doing it.
4. Has sprayed on himself in past and given himself chemical burns. Still sprays on himself if we dont lock it away.
5. Uses 100ml a day of anti-bac hand gel. Shouts and screams like a drug addict if he doesnt get his fix. We've had to put lock on outside of bedroom door to stop him going in there and searching through drawers etc.
6. Gets given homeworks sheets by counsellor. Has yet to do one.
7. Loses his temper and shouts and screams at everyone inc his 4 yr old sister, his mother and me (says he wishes he didnt live with us.) He know he makes his mothers fibromyalgia worse but hes says its not his problem
1 - Can you setup an agreement with the tutors/counselors where they contact you directly to let you know he has homework? Then there is no excuse for you not knowing whether he has homework or not. I would also set a routine agreed with him for a time he dedicates to working on homework.
2 - My brother had a habit of doing this and my mum's response was to barge in and drag him out of the shower - sounds harsh, but it reduced his shower time down from an hour to 20 mins. Could you get a shower timer to show him how much time he is taking? Start at 15 minutes and then see about reducing it down to 10 gradually etc. Maybe he could be rewarded with a hot bath at the weekends as a way of rewarding the cut down on showtime in the week?
3 - Have you asked him the reason for doing this? I have OCD and get anxious if I cannot bleach the toiler after every use and also I get very stressed if it isn't spotless after someone else has used it. Don't have a go at him when you ask him. Say you want to understand how you can make the bathroom experience easier for everyone.
4 - Again, this is linked to OCD and will get worse when anxious and stressed. I have to do a thorough hand washing technique and used to use alcohol gels on my hands before they irritated my skin. It might be that you have to get some intimate cleaning wipes for him, so he can satisfy his OCD without hurting himself.
5 - As above, this is OCD related and will get worse with stress and anxiety.
6 - See number 1.
7 - This is a result of built up tension and anxiety. Can he express how he feels and thinking in writing or pictures. It sounds to me he is getting very frustrated in not being able to express himself.
Either way bad behaviour is still not acceptable, but I suspect that a lot of it is a result of his anxiety and frustration. Hope the above helps.
Hi NAS35349,
paulponty said:2. We've tried all sorts. Timers etc. Speakig to him. He just goes off and does the same then bare faced denies being in there more than 10 mins (when we know its longer)
Being able to accurately ‘differentiate the passing of time’ is allegedly a function of the ‘right side’ of the brain - NDs may often be ‘left’ brained, so this could be a genuine deficit of his, he may genuinely struggle to perceive the passing of time accurately, and this may not be an indication of intentional disobedience at all.
paulponty said:I think our biggest problem is that he seems completely unwilling to help himself, or listen to advice from anyone. He knows it all and he thinks he can do as he pleases. Like I said he just cannot be bothered to take advice from counsellor, so any work given etc?
I don’t think this is necessarily a case of not being bothered. ND’s can have very ‘black and white’ fixed thinking, often because they may not be picking up on all the subtle, extensive and pervasive information ‘cues’ that NTs make constant use of. Instead, to do their best, they may be forced to apply ‘logic’ in the total absence of any other cues/information which can result in their behaviour being extremely inflexible. This is not intentional wilfulness but instead it is often the only way they/we have to be able to make sense of a situation. As a result, if your directives are not making logical sense to him, from his perspective (as he may not be able to imagine your perspective at all...) he will likely not feel able to carry them out. Even if this means he may get into trouble for disobeying, getting into trouble may feel the 'safer' option to him than doing something (anything) which does not currently make any 'sense' to him.
paulponty said:We've tried to encourage him to go to online groups to get support and talk to people same age as him. Can't be bothered. Its as if he just wants to carry on as he is forever and has no interest in getting better.
NDs can have real difficulties with ‘imagination skills,’ this means they may not be able to effectively imagine future events (related again to the ‘present momentness;) and therefore they can genuinely struggle when trying to imagine change, imagine a different way of being or doing things in the future that is different to how things are right now. And this can significantly impact on things like making changes and imagining their future aspirations (such as future careers, or ‘getting well,’) and in a hundred little ways too, such as choosing what to have in a sandwich for lunch or trying to choose a new (different) shower gel etc. This is what, I believe, often underlies a strict adherence to routine; impaired ability to imagine positive alternatives. i.e. 'makes' your son appear to want to 'carry on as he is forever.'
Social difficulties and difficulties with making friends are notoriously extremely difficult (and anxiety inducing) areas for NDs too.
So, it really is possible that some/many of your current conflicts may be a genuine case of a clash of 'worlds' i.e. your NT understanding and perception of events may be inaccurate or inappropriate from an ND worldview/perspective.
When trying to help anyone I think its often best to see things from their perspective first- walk a long hard mile in their shoes before 'judging' their behaviours (from only our own perspective,) so to speak.
Best of luck.
I hope you find a solution to your problems before they become terminal.
My 'insane' family behaviours were never solved.
My father's bathroom habits died with him.
My mother just accepted it. And told me that we were lucky that in our present house the toilet was separated from the bathroom.
When they first got married in the 1950s and she moved in with his family, she was shocked that he wasn't allowed to take a bath in the house but was sent to the local 19th century public baths. When they closed down she discovered why. He always took over an hour to have a bath. Locked the door and nobody could use the only toilet in the house, he ran the hot water tap until cold water was coming through it. When the finished, the bathroom was like a steam room. He never opened the window , never let the dirty water out or cleaned the bath. The walls were soaked with condensation.
So we got into a ritual. As soon as he left the bathroom. We opened the window, let the dirty water out, clean the bath, wipe the wet walls down. Fortunately he only bathed once a week.
Thanks starbuck. I agree a lot is made worse by this condition but not all of it. Hes recently tried using his illness to get out of other things which we were not impressed with.
1. Yes partly our fault for giving him too much space here. But everyone wants to help their 14 year old and trust them a bit. Not so for our son.
Same with counsellor. We can't force him.
2. We've tried all sorts. Timers etc. Speakig to him. He just goes off and does the same then bare faced denies being in there more than 10 mins (when we know its longer)
Same with all the other stuff - attitude seems to be I'll do it if I want.
I think our biggest problem is that he seems completely unwilling to help himself, or listen to advice from anyone. He knows it all and he thinks he can do as he pleases. Like I said he just cannot be bothered to take advice from counsellor, so any work given etc?
We've tried to encourage him to go to online groups to get support and talk to people same age as him. Can't be bothered. Its as if he just wants to carry on as he is forever and has no interest in getting better.
At the moment, he lies about everything, we just can't trust him and deliberately defies any house rules he doesnt like. To be honest, hes 14 now, and its scary to think in 4 years he'll be an adult.