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What's wrong with grammar schools?

lostmyway

There's been a lot of criticism of Theresa May's intention to re-introduce grammar schools in the false hope of making everyone 'equal', but why?

Every kid is different with different abilities and the socialist dream of dumbing down education in order to make everyone inclusive is holding back kids with talent who need to be stretched to develop their potential.

I never passed the 11 plus but I do not resent other kids who did and had the talent to go on to a grammar school. The fact is that you cannot 'Nanny State' people into achieving educational success if they are not commited themselves and the idea that we should all live in a society that does not discriminate in terms of ambition and ability is ludicrous.

  • Martian Tom said:

    I still think that selection at an arbitrary age is fundamentally wrong.  People learn at different speeds.  Some are very bright early on, others (like myself) are late-developers.  What the 11-plus and the grammar school system does, basically, is take everyone at a certain point in their lives and say to them 'Yes, you're bright... welcome to this wonderful world of opportunity' or 'No, sorry... you don't quite measure up.  Off you go, down this chute.'  It just perpetuates social divisions, and a society based on a highly-educated elite and a lowly-educated underclass.  Which is how the elite want it to be, if the truth is known.  Keep people in their proper place.  As opposed to an ethos of inclusivity, and giving everyone a reasonable chance.

    It depresses the hell out of me to think of the number of hugely-talented, bright kids who've been consigned to the scrap-heap because they failed that iniquitous test. The rationale behind it is entirely misplaced and wrong-headed.  At university, I was set for a First based on the quality of my coursework.  I was averaging 70%.  My exams, though, let me down, with an average of 55%.  Tests aren't the be-all-and-end-all of aptitude and intelligence.  And they're a wrong way to determine the course of a child's life at an age when so much else is going on for them.

    Ok, well, if the world was designed the way you and I wanted it Tom, then yes I agree. Unfortunately, it looks like the Tories will be in power for some time to come so I expect they will push through there right-wing policies, if not now then later.

  • Yes, they seem to have a good system in Norway, but don't forget their population is a lot lower than ours.

    The thing about selection at 11 is that you have to identify talent at an early age to get the best out of kids. If you leave it too late you might not get the best from talented children.

    But, I don't see why you can't have selection and still provide a good educational service for less talented people. It's a question of funding, not the sytem being used, because any system needs the right amount of funding for it to be able to work effectively. Eleven years might seem a bit early to judge people but no system is perfect and if you wait too long to enable 'late developers' to catch up you will be penalizing kids who would benefit from a grammer school education.

    In your case Tom, you were a victim of the inability of the system to identify your special needs and had this been addressed at the time you might have gone on to achieve even greater success than you did. In fact, I would say you should be given a great deal of credit for what you did achieve and I think your unidentified abilities at the time have wasted your full potential.

    I also think you're right about the mixed economy that Norway enjoys. I can't ever see that kind of political and social situation existing here (although never say never) and we seem to have a tradition of winners and losers, which encourages competition and slection.