New Employer - best way to disclose ASD diagnosis

Hi Recombinantsocks,

That sounds a fair paraphrase.

Of course it is just my theory. I'm not in a position to investigate it, and certainly not in a position to influence the professionals or convince NAS to modify its use of the triad in training packs. And who reads this forum anyway? Not I suspect the people who make decisions.

I did cite 29th November under "An Idea" the research at Warwick University that found that differences in autistic brains included facial expression recognition and spatial awareness relative to environment. I think it will depend on developments that identify what are the primary difficulties, and what might be secondary, arising from our attempts to compensate and cope with those primary factors.

I suspect that, because we don't pick up on or properly use non-verbal communication (facial expression and gestures), and rely heavily on the spoken word, that makes us less effective at social communication. That makes it harder for us to adapt socially, having little social referencing.

It is possible that the Triad, in looking for identifiers, is dealing mostly with secondary manifestations. And it doesn't include traits which can be confused with other conditions. Which is why sensory gets left out, especially hearing and seeing, because that could indicate schizophrenia. Cue the boy asked if he could hear voices, who replied yes. Yes he wasn't deaf. Not that he heard imaginary voices.

If you look at Gillberg's criteria (Attwood's Complete Guide p37), category 5 is non-verbal communications problems - at least one of limited use of gestures, clumsy/gauche body language, limited facial expression, inappropriate facial expression, peculiar stiff gaze. Most of that could be the result of poor understanding of facial expression.

Particularly if, as children, we are told off a lot for having the wrong facial expression, such as appearing not to take things seriously, or to be smirking when we should look sorry, a natural response might be the line of least resistance - a limited or stiff facial expression.

Going back up Gillberg's list4 is speech and language peculiarities - delayed speech development, superficially perfect expressive language, formal pedantic language, odd prosody/peculiar voice characteristics, impairment of comprehension including misinterpretations of literal/implied meanings.

If you cannot use non-verbal properly, you must rely on the spoken word - that might delay speech development because social referencing, through which speech might develop, could be impaired. Dependence on the spoken word could result in overly perfect language, and being told off for expressing things inappropriately could lead to pedantic language or odd prosody. And not being able to read facial expression might make it hard to pick up on double meanings or metaphors.

Gillberg 3 is the compulsive need for introducing routines and interests - well if you cannot socialise properly, you lack the ability to follow cultural influences, and develop those of your own. And without the shared experience, routines become a safe refuge in a hostile social environment.

Gillberg 2 refers to narrow interest - exclusion of other activities, repetitive adherence, more rote than meaning. But if you don't have effective social referencing, you are likely to resort to isolated comforting activities.

Gillberg 1 is social impairment (extreme egocentricity)  - difficulties interacting with peers, indifference to peer contacts, difficulties interpreting social cues, socially and emotionally inappropriate behaviour. But if you have poor social referencing, and retreat into your own world because the big world present difficulties, surely this is what follows.

Gillberg sees the social impairment as an outcome but perhaps for the wrong reasons. If you are relying on verbal because you cannot understand non-verbal, that's why you end up with social impairment.

Likewise the triad considers consequences to be causal.

There needs to be a rethink on autism. Unfortunately I cannot see that initiative coming from NAS. Nor from health professionals. So we are stuck.

Hi Recombinantsocks,

That sounds a fair paraphrase.

Of course it is just my theory. I'm not in a position to investigate it, and certainly not in a position to influence the professionals or convince NAS to modify its use of the triad in training packs. And who reads this forum anyway? Not I suspect the people who make decisions.

I did cite 29th November under "An Idea" the research at Warwick University that found that differences in autistic brains included facial expression recognition and spatial awareness relative to environment. I think it will depend on developments that identify what are the primary difficulties, and what might be secondary, arising from our attempts to compensate and cope with those primary factors.

I suspect that, because we don't pick up on or properly use non-verbal communication (facial expression and gestures), and rely heavily on the spoken word, that makes us less effective at social communication. That makes it harder for us to adapt socially, having little social referencing.

It is possible that the Triad, in looking for identifiers, is dealing mostly with secondary manifestations. And it doesn't include traits which can be confused with other conditions. Which is why sensory gets left out, especially hearing and seeing, because that could indicate schizophrenia. Cue the boy asked if he could hear voices, who replied yes. Yes he wasn't deaf. Not that he heard imaginary voices.

If you look at Gillberg's criteria (Attwood's Complete Guide p37), category 5 is non-verbal communications problems - at least one of limited use of gestures, clumsy/gauche body language, limited facial expression, inappropriate facial expression, peculiar stiff gaze. Most of that could be the result of poor understanding of facial expression.

Particularly if, as children, we are told off a lot for having the wrong facial expression, such as appearing not to take things seriously, or to be smirking when we should look sorry, a natural response might be the line of least resistance - a limited or stiff facial expression.

Going back up Gillberg's list4 is speech and language peculiarities - delayed speech development, superficially perfect expressive language, formal pedantic language, odd prosody/peculiar voice characteristics, impairment of comprehension including misinterpretations of literal/implied meanings.

If you cannot use non-verbal properly, you must rely on the spoken word - that might delay speech development because social referencing, through which speech might develop, could be impaired. Dependence on the spoken word could result in overly perfect language, and being told off for expressing things inappropriately could lead to pedantic language or odd prosody. And not being able to read facial expression might make it hard to pick up on double meanings or metaphors.

Gillberg 3 is the compulsive need for introducing routines and interests - well if you cannot socialise properly, you lack the ability to follow cultural influences, and develop those of your own. And without the shared experience, routines become a safe refuge in a hostile social environment.

Gillberg 2 refers to narrow interest - exclusion of other activities, repetitive adherence, more rote than meaning. But if you don't have effective social referencing, you are likely to resort to isolated comforting activities.

Gillberg 1 is social impairment (extreme egocentricity)  - difficulties interacting with peers, indifference to peer contacts, difficulties interpreting social cues, socially and emotionally inappropriate behaviour. But if you have poor social referencing, and retreat into your own world because the big world present difficulties, surely this is what follows.

Gillberg sees the social impairment as an outcome but perhaps for the wrong reasons. If you are relying on verbal because you cannot understand non-verbal, that's why you end up with social impairment.

Likewise the triad considers consequences to be causal.

There needs to be a rethink on autism. Unfortunately I cannot see that initiative coming from NAS. Nor from health professionals. So we are stuck.