Update regarding my previous question about my manager copying my hobbies (Long Description!)

Thank you for all the replies I really appreciate it, I'm on my 2 weeks holiday now and so happy about it because I won't have to see my manager and everyone else at work for quite a long time! Calms me down and lets my brain settle, too much being with people everyday and hate it and need to be alone for a long time to do all of the hobbies I love doing, I would get a solicitor but the problem is that it may cost a lot of money :/, I may just hold it off a while... I was hoping if my manager finishes the whole series of Attack on Titan, then he would then shut up about it and then not talk to me about it ever again because it's what I enjoy watching and my hobby not his. The thing I'm most worried about now is when I return back to work from my holiday then I see my manager take it even further copying my style and clothing of Attack on Titan, if that is the case then I will definetly call it quits and think to myself that's it, leaving the job and don't care how good they treated me. I know they treat me very nicely workwise etc but the copying hobbies thing my manager did, if he continues to take it even further etc, then I really can't see me coping anymore with it and unfortunatly will have to end up struggling to find a new job desperatly. Let's just hope he just doesn't get obsessed with it and love it so much after he finished watching the whole series 1.

I told my friends about this yesterday saying my manager copied me watching Attack on Titan and they said that he might be trying to bond with me or something. He's not attracted to me or anything by the way because he has a girlfriend and he's a Dad as well. But even trying to get to know me better by copying my hobbies does not help, I don't like tp bond and be too close to people. I sort of only feel comfortable with people after a very long time getting to know them and also only if they're on the same level as me if you get what I mean. He's a manger so I just listen to him work wise etc and do not want to become good friends with him.

Much obliged, recombinantsocks, I was feeling rather vulnerable over what I meant as reassurance to Hawk, rather than anything deeper.

I think if Attack on Titan is something Hawk does as an escape from work, he is entitled to keep that clearly separate from work. So I think Hawk can legitimately argue that things like that are his off work life and ask, very respectfully, if the manager would let him keep that part of his life separate.

It isn't doing Hawk any good if his enjoyment of his hobbies is compromised by recollection of his manager's intrusive interest.

However I think Hawk should keep a record on incidents (at home - not lying around at work, where the manager or someone else might find it), and also get some legal advice - does a parent or a relative know a solicitor he could chat to?  Even if the manager is trying to get to know Hawk as a work colleague, through showing an interest in his hobbies, it is crossing boundaries and Hawk ought to get good advice.

Hi Curious,

My initial reading of Longman's remark was, I think, what he intended. I don't think he meant to imply a link between being gay and harassment. I can however see that other interpretations were possible but I have read many of longman's posts and I would never suspect him of troll like behaviour. I trust and respect his knowledge and opinions far too highly for that.

If we are trying to help each other, on a forum for people with communication issues, then perhaps we should make extra efforts to strive to see the true intentions of the author before jumping in with both feet?

Back to the OP's question: People make approaches to other people all of the time. Some approaches are welcome by the recipient, others, even if well intentioned are loathesome to the recipient. It becomes an issue of harassment if it is a manager trying to take advantage of a subordinate or if the approaches continue to be made after the recipient has made it clear that they are not interested. In this case, it is not at all clear what the purpose of the approaches is - it seems odd and unwelcome but we really don't know what is behind it. Again, as we struggle with understanding other people's intentions, we should perhaps be extra cautious in divining too much intent, malicious or otherwise from the managers actions.

I think that my advice would be for Hawk to use it an exercise in trying to work out what the point of the manager's behaviour, try and learn to be tolerant of things you don't like without doing anything that you don't want to do. Actually, talking to him about how you would prefer it if he didn't talk about your personal hobbies, might help.

Well I'm sorry you feel so offended. What I did briefly was to try to deflect one aspect of the problem Hawk was experiencing. I didn't want him to worry too much about that angle, so I agree I was a tad flippant, but it is one that deserves consideration. An older man showing undue interest in a younger man could have that derivation.

All the points you make are perfectly correct. I've spent several decades on equality committees including ten years chairing an inter-agency group that dealt extensively with such problems. I'm well educated on these matters. But I don't think a diatribe is necessary every time there is a minor issue of semantics. And all this hasn't helped Hawk's issues.

If you feel so strongly do what I've been doing for years. Get on working parties, forums, and committees on equality and put you ideas into practice. But maybe give a thought to the same processes that run through all aspects of autism and how autism is perceived. At the risk of again being accused of tactlessness, in terms of what goes on out there, people with autism are impacted in much the same ways.

For the third and final time: I agree with the majority of your original post. By virtue of my agreement, I saw no need for additional comment on these aspects.

With good reason, I expressed my concerns with the linking of sexual harassment with sexual orientation. I have already explained my reasoning for this. You conceded that there was no sexual harassment, nor was the manager's sexual orientation of relevance.

If you sincerely see no problem with assuming that a man sexually harassing another man is necessarily gay (or equally that someone sexually harassing someone of a different gender is necessarily heterosexual, notwithstanding that it appears to bear no relevance to Hawk256's situation) then I encourage you to critically analyse your opinion. You might explore, for example, why a heterosexual man might sexually harass a man. Leaving aside the complexities of the perpetrator's prior trauma or other experiences, many potential answers come to mind, including:

1) He believes the victim to be gay and convinced himself that the victim "wants it" e.g. incorrectly assuming that a gay man is indiscriminate in his station, therefore dancing all men, and incorrectly assuming that a gay man is wanting to be sexually active every waking hour of his life.

2) He does not think of the victim as other than heterosexual (e.g. gay or bisexual) but views same-sex sexual harassment as a legitimate method of ridiculing someone he does not regard highly.

3) the victim speaks out against persecution of people with protected characteristics, including people who are gay. The prosecutor (rightly or wrongly - it's irrelevant) concludes that the victim must be gay, on the mistaken belief that only gay people challenge persecution of gay people.

Or maybe a man who sexually harassed another man is bisexual...with many possible motivations and mistaken beliefs, long the lines of the above.

Or maybe a man who sexually harassed another man is gay, again with many possible motivations and mistaken beliefs as above.

If you are "not really sure" whether the subtlety makes a difference then perhaps it is better not to say it - in case it does make a difference. If you are speaking from your own experience then bear in mind that other people have different experiences and opinions. Also, it is not only the victim who could be affected by such an assumption - in this instance it is gay men collectively i.e. all those who are being stereotyped. And yes, with the continuing belief of some that sex between men is synonymous with a number of abhorrent sexual offences which I shall not list /yes/ the subtlety can make a significant difference. And holding the belief that society as a whole is not nice is a poor excuse for perpetuating misconceptions. Consider to what extent you would think it insignificant were a stereotype to be uphold, characterizing autistic people.

I really can't go on educating you on this subject. There comes a point where you must take responsibility for challenging your own thinking. I have genuinely tried to help by pointing out flawed reasoning, and to reconcile our differences by acknowledging our different thought processes in working through situations.

Interesting as this all is, I am aware that this is seriously detracting from Hawk256's concerns. I am also at the point of exasperation. I will therefore cease further examination on this thread of sexual harassment themes, stereotyping of gay people or the unwarranted linking same sex sexual harassment with being gay.

So out of the advice you pick out that I should simply have suggested sexual harrassment, without suggesting his sexuality,  when, between two males, it would be rather implicit that would need to be a factor?

Despite equality legislation people still get beaten up on account of their sexuality, excluded from jobs, social groups, and rented accommodation because of it, denied equal access to services, insurance, pensions and often still conspicuously shunned.

I'm not sure that the subtlety between suggesting sexual harrassment without implying sexuality and just saying it really make much odds to people in that position. Society isn't niice.

Indeed Society isn't nice to people on the autistic spectrum because they are different too.

"Political correctness" is a simplistic put down used in attempt to justify stereotyping or to say offensive things which are unfounded or unreasonable. As someone who has been incorrectly stereotyped I can easily recognise this clichéd phrase for what it is.

Thank you for acknowledging the irrelevance of sexual orientation. It was the linking of sexual orientation with sexual harassment which is unacceptable.

I think it is the reading of the situation (according to the clues you list) as possible indications of sexual harassment which do not add up. In fairness, you say in your first post "that sounds like too much effort to be sexual harrassment." so you recognise that it is not. I accept that you find it a useful approach to "think sexual advances from whatever perspective needs to be considered when one person pays an unusual amount of attention to someone else." Perhaps others will also find this a useful thought process (in this case, a process of elimination) to go through. For myself I would consider whether there was actually a sexual nature to any behaviour/comments etc. before considering whether it could constitute sexual harassment.

So I think that leaves us agreeing that: sexual orientation is not inherently linked to sexual harassment; we have no idea of the manager's sexual orientation; there is a lack of evidence to believe that any sexual harassment has occurred, according to the information given; that you and I have different approaches to assessing the situation described.

The above issue aside, I reiterate the sentiment at the start of my reply, that I tend to agree with your initial response. I did also wonder whether the manager was attempting to "get to know" Hawk256.

Now that's political correctness taken too far. I think sexual advances from whatever perspective needs to be considered when one person pays an unusual amount of attention to someone else. Emulating their clothes, emulating their hobbies, .... that's a big order of excessive attention.

My point is simple though. With all that attention, if it had been sexual, I reckon something of it would have manifested sooner.

I don't think which persuasions present has a bearing - it is an important point.

longman said:

Put it this way, I don't think he's gay - that sounds like too much effort to be sexual harrassment.

While most of your post makes sense, I do find the above a strange comment. There was no question raised by the original poster about a sexual element. And even if there was, I perhaps need to highlight that people of all genders and sexuality are represented among those sexually harassed by (some) heterosexual men. Furthermore, contrary to what is perhaps a stereotype, being a gay man is in no way a predictor of being someone who will sexually harass other people. Second guessing about this manager's sexual orientation is unnecessary.

Neurotypicals are strange creatures. I've been studying them for years, even the mating habits, and still haven't a clue.

It does seem to be necessary as part of being friendly, to express an interest in other people's hobbies, and even feign taking them up. Has it ever occurred to you that he feels, as your manager, that he needs to better understand you, and that this is a way in?

Alternatively he might very genuinely be interested in fashions and gadgets.........gee that's sad though...  Or he has teenage kids and is hoping to gain from your insight. Or simply that where he socialises, he needs this knowledge, and you are the best source of insight.

Immitation, neurotypicals often say, is the sincerest form of flattery - it might actually be respect. Put it this way, I don't think he's gay - that sounds like too much effort to be sexual harrassment.

Don't be too concerned about the age gap and people trying to be young. 40s versus 20s is nothing. Put yourself in my shoes - by the time I retired from teaching, still part-time by 62, I was really finding it too difficult to be on the 20s wavelength (and believe me if students think you're trying to act young they'll really exploit it - I've often had to rescue younger colleagues). But I had to do something to engage their interest.

My honest advice is don't get worked up about it. Neurotypicals have serious mental health problems. Just be calm and at ease about it and play along. Don't show any signs of it getting to you.

Now where did I put those sagging jeans.......?