I worry about it. Without hopefully not getting a thread lock, I want you to just think about something.
If random people enter the UK via the Engilsh Channel on a dinghy, they get rewarded with a house and money.
What if they are criminals fleeing persecution?
Should they be allowed to roam free amongst our children without documentation?
You do not need to state race to break rule 5. That was my point.
What demographic are you referring to?
I didn't mention race. I'm just sayng, if you have kids, be careful if you let them out to play, as the demographic is changing.
Can i just remind everyone of the following:
Rule 5: Do not discriminate
Do not post or link to anything offensive regarding protected characteristics under UK equality law (age, disability, gender reassignment, marriage/civil partnership, pregnancy/maternity, race, religion, sex, sexual orientation).
Rule 7: Be respectful in discussions
Disagreements are fine, but personal attacks, insults, and swearing are not. Respect other viewpoints and avoid escalating arguments.
Lets keep the thread and the conversation respectful
Thank you
Let's also remember rule 5. Race is a protected characteristic. Tiktok is not a reliable source. People show what they want to show. They don't show whole stories. Or the other side of the story. British people commit sexual assaults too.
For anybody who is interested in reading a research report into some of the topics discussed here, and of how Brexit has made the UK economy smaller, this might be worth a look.
The economic gap is one of this countries biggest issues. Look at the countries that are seen to have fairly good crime rates (not the countries that have really severe punishments) and decent social care etc. They are commonly countries that don't have such large gaps between the richest and the poorest.
Thanks that's more thorough than my answer and where I'm coming from as well on this. I don't want to sound like I'm canvassing or something here, but from my point of view the right lie blatantly about these things. They lie blatantly about benefits as well, trying to whip up anger and scrutiny on an already punitive system, claiming people are claiming pip for tennis elbow and mild anxiety which is not happening. And they have most of the newspapers as they're owned by million/billionaires with all sorts of corporate interests, they have think tanks lobbying on their behalf constantly, and of course politicians who will go with the flow of media and powerful interests. So blatant untruths and divisive ideas are repeated. I'm not saying migration doesn't need to be controlled, but we're told there is such scarcity and our ability to be a social democracy is shrinking. Whilst profits of tech giants and ultra wealthy, and their assets, balloon. I don't think there are simple answers as there's a lot that costs money to fix like many crumbling schools, social care, NHS, public sector jobs so many things I guess but I don't believe the focus on migrant dhingys is the thing that's squeezing this country and also not right the scapegoating and generalisations of these people.
My hands are tied (rule 4).
Good luck.
Reading this post and the responses shows just how much misinformation is floating around.
Firstly, can we all please remember that these are human beings, most of which are fleeing from absolute atrocities. Their homes have been destroyed. Loved ones lost. They have had to do desperate things to make a very dangerous journey. Any savings they had have been used to make the journey. Things that happen to them on the way can be truly awful and that isn't just to do with the boat ride.
Secondly, they are not roaming free. On arrival they are usually intercepted and taken for processing which includes security checks and finger printing. They are put in places like hotels. They are not just being handed houses. They are given enough money for basics like food.
Yes statistically some of these individuals may be unpleasant or have criminal tendancies. But so do many of the UK. What's the difference? Most are just desperate people trying to rebuild their lives.
Yes some will evade processing. But these people have no legal documentation so would rely on cash in hand work by people that ask no questions. If they do anything criminal they would be deported so why would they risk it?
Obviously people are going to have concerns about overcrowding in this country and money being spent on people entering the country rather than on our own social care etc.
But what are these people supposed to do. Remain in their own countries to endure horrific conditions and end up losing their lives? What would people want for themselves if they found themselves in that position?
I think no one should be allowed to queue-jump simply by paying a criminal to get to the UK on a dinghy. There are thousands on waiting lists for social housing who've been waiting years and years. It is only young men who arrive on dinghies, too boot ones who can afford the criminal 'boat fare. - I don't believe all can be genuine refugees. Some are clearly perceiving this illegal way of arriving as a way to being housed immediately [where-ever that is] and given living subsidence.
I can't see this is right - not until all our rough sleepers have been housed and found work, and all families are decently housed. Sorry, but there is not enough money in the kitty to fund the cost of all these applications, nor enough funding in the NHS to fund medical treatment. The best way would be a concerted effort to sort out at source the problems that create and perpetrate this horrible practice, which causes stress and problems for everyone involved.
They get £49.18 a week or £9.95 a week if the place they're forced to stay provides food. If they're coming over here to claim benefits then they're pretty stupid and should go somewhere like France or Germany or Spain that have much more generous welfare states than we do. They don't get to choose where to stay they have to take what they're given.
If they're criminals then who cares? some of them statistically will be. If they commit more crimes here then they should be properly punished. Besides which who decides what a crime is? If I'm born in Russia and say Putin is a war criminal I can be arrested and branded a criminal should I be forbidden from moving to the UK?
A lot of people simply don't have documents if you're fleeing your home because you're being genocided you don't always have time or the opportunity to grab a passport or a birth certificate.
People mostly come here for two reasons, we speak english and english is the worlds second language so they want to go somewhere where they can understand people/be understood and because they're fleeing the consequences of our actions. We got a ton of Libyan refugees after our government decided to bomb them. We got a ton more when Syria dissolved into civil war between the government and western-backed rebels.
Around 70% of illegal immigrants to the UK have passed through an EU country beforehand. Before Brexit the UK was not open to as much illegal immigration, that is a fact. Other EU countries certainly were and still are, Greece and Italy especially. Before Brexit the UK was not near a border that was porous to non-EU citizens and the legal right to return immigrants to the first EU country they had entered, if not always perfectly enforced, was better than no right whatsoever, which is the current position.
Some politicians perpetuate myths that may be based on a little fact, but the fact may be a tiny percentage of the whole truth of the matter.
Nigel Farage is a person who has perfected manipulation of the truth to a ‘high’ standard. He ignores the fact that most migrants to the UK are not criminals. When someone is charged with murder or rape, he rarely comments on it unless he perceives the person responsible to be non-white or of a religion other than Christianity. These accounts make front page news, and this further distorts the public’s perception of the facts.
You are right to be concerned about security in my opinion. But you won't get a sensible unbiased discussion online. The Dublin System does not work well, so Brexit is a bit of a red herring in my opinion. Other countries also face problems.
Nothing will happen because it suits too many people to continue and no one wants to be unpopular. Eventually the money will run out and benefits and public services will need to be cut for all to pay for people to feel good about themselves.
Our borders are porous so people get smuggled into Europe too now.
There is a significant amount of organised crime involved.
Don't believe all the right wing agendas pushed by Farage et al. It's all lies.
I would be more inclined to worry about home-grown criminals, there are many more of them than ever sat in a boat in the English Channel. Though, of course crime rates have been falling nationwide.
Brexit was the cause of the small boat problem. Before Brexit, EU rules meant that the UK could deport any illegal immigrant back to the first EU country they had entered. Now we cannot do that. The people, like Farrage, who bleated so much about legal immigration from EU countries are the ones who caused the current problem with illegal immigration. This is hugely ironic to say the least.
Personally, I find Farrage and his ilk of deeply financially and morally corrupt pseudo-patriots far more frightening than any Afghan fleeing the Taliban who managed to scrape up enough money to reach France and cross the channel in an overloaded rubber boat.
You have been sold a lie, a big fat one at that.
Hello, just to say no one is rewarded with a house for turning up in the UK. We have laws that protect people who are fleeing there country because of persecution, war and devastation. Possibly other reasons I can't think of. But these people have to be judged by a system to determine if they meet these criteria. If you look at the UK's asylum and refugee system there's a big back log so people who turn up without documentation are waiting for the outcome of their case here for a few years. They are put on bail conditions meaning they can't look for jobs and they are given a meagre allowance for food and essentials, it's something like 5 pound a day I can't remember the exact amount but there's a lot of misinformation online that they are given a lot of benefits and homes. They're given temporary accommodations and don't get to choose where, it just happens to be cheap hotels because that's who has contracts with the government. It's still an wasteful process. But I would say think of the alternative.
Many people are refugees because they may be killed in their home country. In the case of criminals, I think there is more attentiveness then people roaming free without being documented by the state. I imagine some get through the cracks, I would have to research it but my general thought is the authorities do know and process people when they turn up by boat. The alternative to stop these boats could lead to tragedies as it already has in some cases where British and French didn't intervene with one of these boats that was sinking.
People escaping conflict and persecution are traumatized, maybe even from the journey, and also you have to think from the perspective of people's freedom and rights. Would it be right to detain said people? It's a difficult question and I would say probably not. The crime of refugees in this country is over blown in the news, if you compare crime rates of people who were born here, refugees are focused on disproportionately.
Anyhow these are just some of my thoughts.
