Pragmatic Language Do humans really understand what they and others are saying? Implications for autistic people.

I'd noticed that too, and wondered if ifs not so much about black and white meanings, or what we're saying, but the fact that we're discussing it at all, some people nit pick when they feel intimidated by anothers knowlege, about anything, even if it's something they have no real interest in themselves.

Oooo thank you I’ll have a read. Yeah I bet that is an interesting and rewarding role you have…. I like learning how words come into existence I was reading up a few years ago on the history or language - such as Greek and Russian having similar origins and the root of the French language 

InterTrails said:

trying to use them is hilariously awkward - I gave up 

There is a good source of the current words in use by the younger generation:

https://www.weareteachers.com/teen-slang/

They give examples of it in use to help you contextualise it.

I find I can talk to them in my normal way but so long as I can understand what they mean with their slang then we can happily co-exist.

I get the added joy of having to work out the slang in another language with the kids I coach.

Really interesting this is. I usually don’t post if I think my terminology is off , this happens in actual live conversations also. I posted about something very similar a few weeks ago after a social occasion that went a little foul for me. My ability to communicate and find the words that I needed to stay engaged almost completely left me…. My brain seems to give up after that and then comes the awkward moments. 

Oh 100% I used to have this problem with words previously all the kids have new words - I bought a dictionary actually to learn about them such “bye feliciaaaaa” what that actually means. Otherwise you’re lost entirely but also trying to use them is hilariously awkward - I gave up 

Also p.s be careful with chat bot because it does tend to support whatever state of mind you are in. Try to talk to it in a positive proactive manner on how can I make things better and you will get better results. I’ve asked it the same question from a few angles and had different results. 

B said:

Words and their 'correct' usage are exceptionally important to me.

With language being in constant evolution and the social use of words also in constant flux, how can you be sure you are correct though?

Bad once meant bad then it meant good for a while then it reverted again - the same is true of many social terms that get adopted by different generations or even movements.

I was recently told that a dictionary definition of a word was wrong and I should stop using it - should I believe the person or trust the more official keeper of standards?

Yeah that’s and interesting train on thought particular as you mention reading (hearing?) 

InterTrails said:

has this got something to do with masking and un masking? Needing to use correct words because if you don’t you know the outcome might not be correct but also needing to melt and the social exhaustion

Yes! It’s probably about masking and fitting in. My communication skills are irregular, and some days I lose the ability to make sense. I know what I mean in my head, but I can’t put it into words. I have a book (I don’t remember the title) somewhere that has a piece on this. It talks about the process of conversation—hearing (reading?) information, receiving it in the brain as words, translating the words into pictures, …, translating what you want to say from pictures into words, saying the words. 

I know what you mean about posting nonsense things and I do that frequently with my closest friends mostly because they know me and they know if I’m joking - has this got something to do with masking and un masking? Needing to use correct words because if you don’t you know the outcome might not be correct but also needing to melt and the social exhaustion 

I think in my experience choosing the correct words is important because it can affect and alter a relationship with the listener and direction of the outcome of the conversation. I’ve not been great at it in the past and I know I still struggle sometimes to find the right terminology to express something - particularly if you’re struggling with identifying the particular problem in the first place. Chat bot certainly helps with this 

It’s really annoying and it tends to be the extreme black and white thinkers.

I can be very black and white too over some things, but I am fairly good at understanding what colour thinking is when it comes to evaluating possibilities in different contexts and that sort of thing. Sometimes it’s plain English that gets me, and I can’t always understand the intended meaning at first reading.

Oh yes we do, don't we I think you and I have both run foul of people who question our use of terminology and won't give up trying to correct or undermine us.

I noticed that on your thread too B, and thought, 'here we go again'.

I like words, they give texture and depth to what you're saying and describing, but I find it's often not the choice of word that confuses me but the intonation. Like when people give an upward tilt at the end of a sentence making it sound like a question when it isn't.

I know I'm always banging on about this, but I find text speak in normal conversations and writing really difficult and annoying, sometimes I feel that what should be a conversation is more a series of acronyms and verbal shorthand. I feel its lazy and wish people would speak properly, if I see a thread that has these in it, I turn off and often don't engage, or I ask what someone means and that seems to be a faux pas too.

Choosing the correct words to say something is extremely important because it can avoid confusion. Having said that, I am guilty of posting some nonsensical things on this forum, usually when my mind is all over the place or my grammar skills are diminished. This commonly happens when I’m sleep deprived or having some crisis, but I do try to make what I say clear.

This has reminded me of an earlier post which contained a noun that had been in common use by some archaeologists, and which was listed in the Oxford Archaeological Dictionary, yet it had a different and more literal meaning in other academic specialisms and in daily life. Unrelated, to that post, sociology, archaeology, anthropology and philosophy use words that mean different things in the others specialisms or in every day life. Things like these might cause further disagreements here as we have people who are very knowledgeable in their specialist subjects.

Phased said:

An excellent recent thread on Autism Related Terminology 

Actually, within that thread, others might have noticed a disagreement about the terms 'neurodiverse' and 'neurodivergent'.

I think that demonstrates your point very well!

Phased said:

Maybe word meaning is so important because, as is frequently reported, autistic people often demonstrate difficulties in the communicative use of language compared with neurotypical standards.

Yes, I think so.

Here's what NAS says about communication for autistic people:

https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topics/about-autism/autism-and-communication#Autistic%20communication%20differences

Words and their 'correct' usage are exceptionally important to me.

I find other people tend to talk in approximations and I find many conversations hard to follow and find myself either clarifying speech or correcting it.

I remember saying at my autism assessment 'I wish people would say what they mean and mean what they say'.