Driving plans for pay-per-mile tax and the implications

Aside from the tracking, but relevant if concerned, is the practicality. I can't see how this could possibly work. There are people coming in and out of the country all the time. Unless it is only for residents people would have to get a 'box' before entering the country.

For residents, I question how this would be policed. I think back to the difficulties during the pandemic of fines for those who broke the regulations and many who didn't follow the rules. How much would need to be spent and what would the punishment be for not having a box?

Homebird said:

Unless it is only for residents people would have to get a 'box' before entering the country.

I'm pretty sure the government would find a scheme to have a "loan" device to rent to them to meet the legal requirements - this way they get to charge for the milage plus box rental and this would more than cover the admin cost of providing the service.

Implement it at the ports as part of the customs checks and the existing infrastructure can still be used.

Homebird said:

For residents, I question how this would be policed

With the large number of number place recognition cameras already in use, it will be trivial to alert the traffic plod to pick them up and fine them - yet more revenue for no extra overhead.

I expect a large number of toll booths being setup as well which will use the NPR cameras to auto impound cars that are not showing as being covered and are not giving the signal from the required box.

These would not need to charge for for registered vehicles to pass through as the fines would more than cover the costs.

Homebird said:

How much would need to be spent and what would the punishment be for not having a box?

Most of the infrastructure is in place in cities already so it is just the more rural and remote areas that will probably be slow on the uptake, but it should be self financing in the short term.

Punishments are simple - no box = no insurance so the fine would be risking losing your license and your vehicle plus an unlimited fine just as it is now. A pretty powerful motivator.

https://www.police.uk/advice/advice-and-information/rs/road-safety/driving-without-insurance/

I wonder how many people currently drive without insurance. So now the situation is that the honest people pay more for everything and those who don't believe in paying taxes will get something else for free, unless in this case it is possible to impound the vehicle they are 'currently' driving. 

There are still a few businesses who only take cash and workmen who offer cheaper work for cash. However there are also people who believe when they are asked to pay taxes they make statements about not believing in paying taxes. 

Homebird said:

Sorry to be cynical, but wondering if those people will pay their fines.

I'm sure there will be hold-outs much like there are today, but a the methods of control spread then the ability to escape it will reduce.

The government are making it harder and harder to use cash as they want oversight of everything you spend and buy. 

They already have pressured the banks into not giving out largish sums of money without proof of what is being bought (a fairly new development) to stop large sums being spent without their knowledge and choking the supply for people who deal in largish amounts of cash (thing second hand car salesmen, drug dealers and other such suspicious individuals).

Over time there will be fewer an fewer options for these people to avoid the "system".

Sorry to be cynical, but wondering if those people will pay their fines.

It's still possible to drive round Anglesey without encountering APNR cameras, I've met a couple of people who do it regularly, one because he has no licence and never has, and the other because of his politics, which seem somewhat to the right of Farage's. I think there are a few places where APNR cameras are few and far between, it would be totally impracticle to have such cameras on the miles and miles of small roads in the countryside, the more rural you are the fewer cameras of any kind there are. I think it would be simply too expensive to have them on every little single track lane and farm gate. Have you ever wondered why so many little country lanes are national speed limit, despite many being single track roads? It's because it's impossible to police, I think they sort of hope speeding numpties will drive into a tree or a tractor and Darwnism will sort it out.

Another thing, what about areas where signal is patchy or non existant?

Will cyclists have to pay for thier road use too, or will they get away with paying nothing again?

Homebird said:

I wonder how many people currently drive without insurance.

About 300,000 (source: https://www.mib.org.uk/media-centre/news/2024/june/shocking-levels-of-uninsured-vehicle-on-uk-roads/ )

Think of this new monitoring system as being a great way in the governments eyes for them to catch ever more of them though. Lots of fines and later revenue from the offending drivers and it being way harder for them to offend in future, especially if they phones are tracked now.

Once all vehicles reqire this system then it will be much easier to identify ones that lack it - a bit like the congestion charge zone where cameras will be able to identify vehicles readily and apprehension of the vehicles can be outsourced to private companies (with MPs on their board of directors of course) who will get a cut of the fine and probably of the impounded vehicle value as well.

Existing systems can handle almost all of this already.

Homebird said:

I wonder how many people currently drive without insurance.

About 300,000 (source: https://www.mib.org.uk/media-centre/news/2024/june/shocking-levels-of-uninsured-vehicle-on-uk-roads/ )

Think of this new monitoring system as being a great way in the governments eyes for them to catch ever more of them though. Lots of fines and later revenue from the offending drivers and it being way harder for them to offend in future, especially if they phones are tracked now.

Once all vehicles reqire this system then it will be much easier to identify ones that lack it - a bit like the congestion charge zone where cameras will be able to identify vehicles readily and apprehension of the vehicles can be outsourced to private companies (with MPs on their board of directors of course) who will get a cut of the fine and probably of the impounded vehicle value as well.

Existing systems can handle almost all of this already.

There are still a few businesses who only take cash and workmen who offer cheaper work for cash. However there are also people who believe when they are asked to pay taxes they make statements about not believing in paying taxes. 

Homebird said:

Sorry to be cynical, but wondering if those people will pay their fines.

I'm sure there will be hold-outs much like there are today, but a the methods of control spread then the ability to escape it will reduce.

The government are making it harder and harder to use cash as they want oversight of everything you spend and buy. 

They already have pressured the banks into not giving out largish sums of money without proof of what is being bought (a fairly new development) to stop large sums being spent without their knowledge and choking the supply for people who deal in largish amounts of cash (thing second hand car salesmen, drug dealers and other such suspicious individuals).

Over time there will be fewer an fewer options for these people to avoid the "system".

Sorry to be cynical, but wondering if those people will pay their fines.

It's still possible to drive round Anglesey without encountering APNR cameras, I've met a couple of people who do it regularly, one because he has no licence and never has, and the other because of his politics, which seem somewhat to the right of Farage's. I think there are a few places where APNR cameras are few and far between, it would be totally impracticle to have such cameras on the miles and miles of small roads in the countryside, the more rural you are the fewer cameras of any kind there are. I think it would be simply too expensive to have them on every little single track lane and farm gate. Have you ever wondered why so many little country lanes are national speed limit, despite many being single track roads? It's because it's impossible to police, I think they sort of hope speeding numpties will drive into a tree or a tractor and Darwnism will sort it out.

Another thing, what about areas where signal is patchy or non existant?

Will cyclists have to pay for thier road use too, or will they get away with paying nothing again?