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Driving plans for pay-per-mile tax and the implications

Iain

Trigger warning - there is some discussion of authoritatian government below so if this is triggering for you, please look away.

I've been following some of the governments discussions on changing the road tax model to become a pay-per-mile scheme and a few things have given me pause for thought.

Legislation for this seems to be currently under development from recent news reports due to the governments inability to balance the budget.

To comply with this legislation, all cars will have to be fitted with a telemetry device to track the vehicle. It seems a logical requirement but as it is now going to be effectively tracking you in real time, most likely recording every trafic law violation and will be a great tool for the government to issue a massive number of traffic offence tickets to generate income.

Of course this will improve safety too so not necessarily a bad thing.

I'm pretty sure the control box will need to be government approved, fitted by government licensed installers and have the software that cannot be tampered with. A few more opportunities for subcontractors with politicians on their board of directors.

My suspicion is that this same box will be able to proximity sense other mobile devices and be used to track individuals through this as well, so when it comes time to arrest you for posting on social media about something the goverment isn't happy about then the police know where to get you.

Is the timing of the government digital ID introduction a co-incidence? Think about what the government will be able to do at this point. They can track you though your mobile phone, if you are driving they know everywhere you go and if you break any laws, they know how much you earn, from who and can track all transactions in your bank / Paypal / Venmo accounts etc.

Of course the arguement is that is you have done nothing wrong then you have nothing to hide.

The plan of a surveillance state then takes a huge leap foward and gives so much more power to the government to squeeze money out of you while controlling you.

Am I way off the mark here? Is the government really as nice as they claimed to be when getting you to vote for them? Do you still trust them?

Parents

  • If they do bring in such a thing will it be just England or the whole UK?

    Will there be allowances made according to postcode or where you live? If you live in a rural area then you do a lot of miles simply to get to the shops for food, driving 3 or 4 miles to get to the local shop isn't unusual, or further for the GP.

    Do I trust the government, no, I don't trust any government to do right for the majority of the people, our politics is to adversarial, to us and them, when government changes the new incumbents spends half their time undoing what the previous lot did and not replacing it with any better, just with a different ideological bent.

    I disagree with Digital ID cards, this government may not have any great designs on curtailing our activities or monitoring us, but such things are wide open to mission creep. A future government could well decide that we have to have all our medical details on them to prove we can see our GP and how often we see our GP. It could decide that we do have to produce it on demand of the police. Then you've got the issue of who has access to the information, this could have huge legal implications, could your medical history be used in open court to discredit your testimony, even as a witness? 

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  • If they do bring in such a thing will it be just England or the whole UK?

    Will there be allowances made according to postcode or where you live? If you live in a rural area then you do a lot of miles simply to get to the shops for food, driving 3 or 4 miles to get to the local shop isn't unusual, or further for the GP.

    Do I trust the government, no, I don't trust any government to do right for the majority of the people, our politics is to adversarial, to us and them, when government changes the new incumbents spends half their time undoing what the previous lot did and not replacing it with any better, just with a different ideological bent.

    I disagree with Digital ID cards, this government may not have any great designs on curtailing our activities or monitoring us, but such things are wide open to mission creep. A future government could well decide that we have to have all our medical details on them to prove we can see our GP and how often we see our GP. It could decide that we do have to produce it on demand of the police. Then you've got the issue of who has access to the information, this could have huge legal implications, could your medical history be used in open court to discredit your testimony, even as a witness? 

Children
  • in reply to TheCatWoman
    TheCatWoman said:

    If they do bring in such a thing will it be just England or the whole UK?

    Will there be allowances made according to postcode or where you live?

    I would imagine there would be a phased approach due to the need to retrofit old cars, but I expect they will use a ramping up of the Carbon Tax rules to force more and more older cars into scrappage and support the car industry.

    If they can establish that they are creating loads of jobs (even of only for a few years) and car manufacturing is on the rise then they can claim it as a victory.

    The fact it adds a big load to our pockets is our problem.

    TheCatWoman said:
    such things are wide open to mission creep

    This was the main point of my article, It is convenient for them to be able to see everything going on and this will add a whole lot more data to their knowledge.

    If you are claiming for mobility support but are still regularly travelling then your claim may be denied because you are currently meeting the need anyway. From the reasons people have quoted for why claims are denied, this seems quite plausable and of course saves the government money.

    TheCatWoman said:
    Then you've got the issue of who has access to the information, this could have huge legal implications, could your medical history be used in open court to discredit your testimony, even as a witness? 

    Insurers can already ask to see your medical records even to take out health insurance so I am fairly sure that where the records are relevant to a court case then they can do this too. There is detail on the current rules here:

    https://www.bma.org.uk/advice-and-support/ethics/confidentiality-and-health-records/requests-for-medical-information-from-insurers

    As to whether they can use it to discredit a witness - that is unlikely to be easy under the current law but I wouldn't put it past the insurers if they wanted to lobby for it.

    There is an interesting article on MPs influence in major companies here:

    https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/mps-and-outside-business-interests/

    If a big insurer wanted to influence a change in the law, how do you think they would go about it?

    I think it is very much like lobbying in the USA, but it is much more discreet in the UK.