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Exploring Identity and Neurodiversity

Packet
Hi everyone,

I’d like to open a careful and respectful discussion around a concept I’ve come across called “species dysphoria.” 
It’s not a recognized medical or psychological diagnosis, but rather a speculative or philosophical idea involving a mismatch between one’s identity and being human.
I want to be very clear:
  • This is not being presented as a clinical condition.
  • I’m sharing it as a thought experiment to explore how identity, neurodiversity, and self-perception intersect.
  • I recognize that autistic individuals may engage deeply with abstract or niche ideas, and I want to ensure this conversation remains grounded, safe, and open to critical thinking.
If this topic feels uncomfortable or confusing, please feel free to skip it.
And if you do choose to engage, I’d love to hear your thoughts—whether skeptical, curious, or critical.
Let’s keep it thoughtful and kind. 
Regards,
Packet(a96ddb is my color)
  • in reply to Packet
    Packet said:
    In a world shaped by neurotypical norms, I often feel like I’m being interpreted through a lens that doesn’t fit. For example, homo sapiens—as a species—has historically outcompeted others, and that legacy can shape how people instinctively relate to one another:
    • “This is another human, so I must compete.”
    • “This person is passive, so they must be subordinate.”

    Have you worked through any of this with a therapist?

    I had similar questions which I talked to my therapist about and she helped me with the interpritation of how other people are seeing me and how I am misinterpriting their responses.

    This sort of discussion can be very illuminating if understanding the dynamics and "rules" is important to you..

    Packet said:
    internally, I’m not competitive. I’m a people-pleaser.

    These are good subjects to explore with a therapist too. For me I spent decades working in a support role and it was only when exploring why I stayed in a job that was very high stress (to my autistic traits) that it made sense - I was seeking validation through being useful to others and seeking praise.

    Have you considered your reasons for seeking validation in others? It opens up a lot of internal knowledge when you dig deep.

    Through the process of coming to really know yourself I would expect this to bring you to a more concrete conclusion on your self identity and stop you feeling so alien to the species that you were born into.

    These are just my thoughts on the subject - feel free to ignore.

  • in reply to Packet
    Packet said:
    It’s more about wanting to cosplay—to wear a symbolic identity that helps me feel safer, more aligned, and more understood.

    So, rather than put on a mask to fit in, you want to put on a mask to stand out and declare: I'm different, do not try to understand me as you do other humans. Is that it?

  • in reply to Lotus
    Apologies for the delay in responding—thank you for your patience. I’ve been reflecting on this deeply, and I appreciate the space to clarify.
    For me, species dysphoria—at least as I experience or imagine it—isn’t about feeling like my body is wrong. It’s more about the disconnect between how others perceive my body and how I experience my internal nature.
    In a world shaped by neurotypical norms, I often feel like I’m being interpreted through a lens that doesn’t fit. For example, homo sapiens—as a species—has historically outcompeted others, and that legacy can shape how people instinctively relate to one another:
    • “This is another human, so I must compete.”
    • “This person is passive, so they must be subordinate.”
    But internally, I’m not competitive. I’m a people-pleaser. I seek harmony. And when I express disagreement, it often surprises people—because they’ve already placed me in a “subordinate” category based on how I present or behave.
    So for me, species dysphoria isn’t about wanting to change my body. That path could be dangerous or dysregulating. It’s more about wanting to cosplay—to wear a symbolic identity that helps me feel safer, more aligned, and more understood. Like how wearing sunglasses can create a sense of distance or protection in social spaces.
    I don’t expect others to feel the same way. But it’s comforting to know there are people who understand this experience—who see the nuance, and who don’t require me to fit into a predefined category just to be heard.
  • in reply to Lotus
    Hi Lotus,
    This is a great point, and I really appreciate you raising it.
    Personally, I often wish I didn’t have to be classified as any species at all. But I’ve come to feel that the neurotypical world we live in seems to rely on classification and pigeonholing—not out of malice, but as a way to maintain mental clarity and understanding. I don’t think my brain works that way. I tend to process all information without shortcuts, which can be exhausting but also deeply nuanced.
    For neurotypical people, I think classification acts like a cognitive prompt:
    • “I’m looking at an animal, so I’ll treat it like a pet.”
    • “I’m looking at another human, so I’ll treat them as competition.”
      These mental shortcuts help them respond quickly, but they can also limit the depth of interaction.
    So while I may not personally identify with any species, I feel I still need to choose one—if only to communicate my needs to the outside world in a way that they can understand. It’s not about conforming, but about translating.
    There’s no expectation for anyone else to follow this path.
    It’s just comforting to know there are people who understand what I’m going through.
  • in reply to TheCatWoman
    In many group settings, saying something that might disrupt the dynamic can feel risky—especially for neurotypical people, who often prioritize harmony and indirect communication. But for neurodivergent individuals, especially autistic people, speaking up is often a strength. It’s not about confrontation—it’s about clarity.
    Sometimes, we speak because something is causing internal conflict.
    Sometimes, we speak because we need to understand an idea more fully.
    And sometimes, we speak before we’ve formed a strong conviction—because saying it out loud helps us process it.
    It’s important to remember:
    Just because someone expresses a thought doesn’t mean they’re fixed in that belief.
    Dismissal, however, can unintentionally strengthen that belief—especially if the idea hasn’t yet had the chance to be explored or evaluated in a shared, respectful way.
    Neurodivergent communication often values directness, honesty, and inquiry. These aren’t flaws—they’re tools for understanding. And when embraced, they can lead to deeper connection, not division.
  • in reply to Damojo
    I want to begin by saying that my intention in sharing this is not to cause conflict or confusion. This is a neurodivergent space, and I believe it’s perfectly normal—and healthy—for us to express ourselves and ask questions without fear of being misunderstood or labeled as “rude.” Communication styles vary, and for many of us, directness is not a lack of politeness but a form of clarity.
    The term homo divergens resonates deeply with me. It’s not a scientific classification, but a thought experiment—a way to articulate how different our cognitive experiences can be from the neurotypical majority. As autistic individuals, our brains process the world in ways that are fundamentally distinct. While we may not look different on the outside, our internal experiences often are.
    This difference can lead to a sense of alienation. Personally, I sometimes feel the need to “run away” from the expectations of neurotypical society—not out of disdain, but out of a desire to be understood on my own terms. I don’t want others to assume I naturally associate with them or share their social norms. Instead, I wish they would approach each interaction with me as if it were “first contact”—with curiosity, openness, and respect.
    This isn’t about division. It’s about recognition. It’s about creating a space where neurodivergent people can be seen, heard, and valued for who we are—not who we’re expected to be.
  • in reply to TheCatWoman

    A lot of the time, I feel like I'm on the outside of the box looking in. Human behaviour baffles me so much that I figure I must be a different species. Put me down as Homo divergens.

  • in reply to Damojo

    I feel like you about this about a lot of things, I don't believe I'm engaging in group think, thought experiements are often about thinking outside of whatever box people are inhabiting. Trouble is many of my thoughts on things are out side the box anyway and when I say what I think or feel, it seems like I've set off some kind of thought bomb.

  • in reply to Packet

    Maybe this is the Autist in me typing, but ... what? Is this just one of those, "If you were a tree, what kind of tree would you be?" kind of things? I genuinely don't know what the point is in having a "careful and respectful discussion around [that] concept". What's the goal here? What are we trying to learn? What makes it worth any investment of time?

    This is normally the point where people point at me and tell me I'm being "rude". Well, what I am is confused, and the more information you provide the more confused I get, because I still don't know what the point of all this is. In fact, I think I know less now than I did at the start.

    Sorry, I just don't have a clue what's going on here. I'm getting that vibe I get when I sense that all around me are engaging in some kind of groupthink and agreeing with something that makes no sense whatsoever and I'm the only one in the room whose brain is still working (in my own estimation). Perhaps that is a useful observation in its own right.

  • I think that the identity is being too important for some people these days, they concentrate too much on who they are instead of what they achieve. That’s why there is identity crisis. I’m human and I enjoy experiencing life in my human body, although it’s hard (with other humans) and I’m often tired and need more breaks, I take it as a challenge. I love watching leaves shaking in a gust, I love watching their juicy colors n cloudy weather (my favorite) because then I can watch the world without sunglasses. And I enjoy aliens and space. 

  • in reply to Iain
    Hello, and thank you for your many detailed responses. I’ve chosen this one to focus on, as it aligns most closely with my original thought process and I’d like to clarify a few points.
    Initially, I was approaching the concept of species dysphoria as a sense of disconnect from one’s assigned species at birth.
    This doesn’t necessarily mean one has identified a preferred species, and that identity may not be fixed over time.
    In my case, I’m narrowing the scope to existing species—those that are within the realm of biological or synthetic possibility. To better define the parameters I’m considering:
    1. Conceivable Existence: The species should be one that could plausibly exist, acknowledging that our current scientific understanding may be incomplete.
    2. Extinct Species: With advancements in genetic engineering, it may become feasible to identify with extinct species, provided sufficient DNA samples are available.
    3. Cognitive Compatibility: The species should be capable of hosting human-like intellect, even if it doesn’t currently exist. This could be a future aspiration.
    4. Hybrids: Hybrid species are a valid consideration within this framework.
    5. Species Fluidity: Identification may not be constant—some individuals might experience fluidity in their species identity over time.
  • in reply to Iain

    I didn't say the grass likes it or that it is optimal, I just said it wasn't murder as it does not die. It is adapted to cope.

    I could argue that using the word 'pain' is human, mammal or animal centric. It has certain higher level implications beyond a chemical response to a stimulus, in my opinion.

    You could say  plants can trigger an adaptive response that shifts resources away from the optimum for growing and reproducing quickly to one of defence. But I am unconvinced it is really 'pain'.

    But if you grow them in small pots, or close together, or with limited water, light or food, or under different temperatures, you also get adaptive behaviour.

  • in reply to Stuart333
    Stuart333 said:
    Plants have no nervous system or focal point such as a brain. With nowhere to feel pain it is hard to say they feel anything.

    That is puting it in a very species centric way. 

    Awareness is not necessarily the same as sentience. It was clearly shown by the research I linked to that when plants are harmed, the exhibit what is effectively a pain response.

    You could also argue that insects have much simpler processing units (I doubt they are analogus to human brains) so would they also not "feel" anything.

    How about fungus? It is a massively more complex thing than a simple plant, can connect whole hosts of bodies and achieve control over insect brains for example.

    Just because we don't see it as analogous to our minds, does not mean these things cannot be afforded the same consideration.

    As  says, we have to make a decision at what point in the hierarchy we chose to begin consuming the beings in order to survive.

    Stuart333 said:
    Grass has evolved to be eaten

    You could equally argue that some groups of people have evolved to be slaves and have lots of kids to replace those who get taken. It is a survival tactic in response to an environmental threat but it does not mean that grass does not suffer.

  • in reply to Iain

    Plants have no nervous system or focal point such as a brain. With nowhere to feel pain it is hard to say they feel anything. Feelings are much more complicated.

    Sensing and feeling are not the same. My eyes sense light, but I see with my brain.

    You have reflex actions, like with you knee, that do not involve your brain. You  don't feel it till after you've moved. Indeed reflexes work even if the spinal cord is broken and no message gets to the brain, in which you feel nothing.

    If I stab my finger with a pin it is my brain that experiences something. I get bleeding, clotting, some swelling, histamine, immune responses regardless. Take pain killers or cut the nerve and it all still works. So the local response is separate from the experience.

    The plant's chemical responses to stimuli cause various cellular functions to be switched on or off. Vascular plants obviously have a mechanism to signal to more than the neighbouring cells. But a chemical in the sap, like a hormone in the blood, does not generate any feeling directly.

    Insomuch as individual cells can respond, then they are the same as any living thing, but a single cell does not seem to have a mechanism to feel anything.

    Is cutting the grass murder? Not really. You don't kill the grass. Grass has evolved to be eaten and the blades grow from the bottom. 

  • in reply to Iain

    I did find that when I was meditating a lot I got a bit to aware of other souls, including those of plants. I've had to do some wrestling with my concience to come to terms with the idea of the world being a big restaurant and everybody eating each others babies, even if it is a lettuce. I hate the sound of chain saws because I'm aware of the fear they cause trees.

    I think the discoveries of mycelium fibres in connecting plants to each other and aiding communication is amazing, but it also made me think 'finally' as plants talking to each other and everything else has been part of my awareness since childhood. At least nobody can tell me I'm crazy and imaginative anymore. It's the worlds wide web, it's the wyrd and our own internet seems a bit puny by comparrison. I wonder if the worlds wide web gets trolls trying sell it bitcoin?

  • in reply to TheCatWoman
    TheCatWoman said:
    I could add plants into that mix too.

    If you start to research into plants and their feelings, there are some startling results being discovered.

    https://www.bbcearth.com/news/plants-have-feelings-too

    The feelings are more primitive than what we feel but are real all the same.

    Worse still:

    https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/24473/20191218/a-group-of-scientists-suggest-that-plants-feel-pain.htm

    Last year, another study found that some plants registered pain after their leaves were touched and plucked, which eventually caused the release of foul-tasting chemicals across the leaves.

    If meat is murder then is grass cutting mass murder? In the light of the above, actually legitimate questions.

    Sometimes you just have to shut out some facts and try to live in ignorance.

  • I just enjoy living as part of a multi-species household, cat's, dogs, hens and humans, we all have our different needs and requirements, I could add plants into that mix too.

  • in reply to Iain

    Thanks Iain. That’s useful to know.

  • in reply to Autismman

    Feral children are fascinating, there were quite a few discovered after the breakdown of the USSR. One girl had been brought up by dogs and understood canine communication very well.

    I did hear of a small child living with cats somewhere in South America, the police found him asleep surrounded by bits of food and cats, the cats hissed at rescuers and were very protective of the child.

    It's thought from studying feral children who struggle with language that theres a learning window for speech development and if this window is missed it will be very difficult to acquire spoken language, or human language at least.

    I read that there's a lot of reiict DNA in people from sub-Saharan Africa, relicts of other types of humans. From what we know human species have been able to interbreed, which probably means that they all had a common ancestor species not that far back. Cats have the same thing, lions and tigers can interbreed, even though you don't find tigers in the wild in Africa. I've seen a "liger" and it was HUGE, much bigger than either of its parents.

    I don't have a problem with being human, I've encountered many that do, people who believe they're aliens incarnated onto this planet. People who believe they're a spiritual being and not a human one.

    I would like to spend some time as a cat, but there are some things that put me right off, licking my bum for one!

  • in reply to Autismman

    Indeed, and who knows how many human ancestors will be discovered in years to come.