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Exploring Identity and Neurodiversity

Packet
Hi everyone,

I’d like to open a careful and respectful discussion around a concept I’ve come across called “species dysphoria.” 
It’s not a recognized medical or psychological diagnosis, but rather a speculative or philosophical idea involving a mismatch between one’s identity and being human.
I want to be very clear:
  • This is not being presented as a clinical condition.
  • I’m sharing it as a thought experiment to explore how identity, neurodiversity, and self-perception intersect.
  • I recognize that autistic individuals may engage deeply with abstract or niche ideas, and I want to ensure this conversation remains grounded, safe, and open to critical thinking.
If this topic feels uncomfortable or confusing, please feel free to skip it.
And if you do choose to engage, I’d love to hear your thoughts—whether skeptical, curious, or critical.
Let’s keep it thoughtful and kind. 
Regards,
Packet(a96ddb is my color)
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  • in reply to Iain

    I didn't say the grass likes it or that it is optimal, I just said it wasn't murder as it does not die. It is adapted to cope.

    I could argue that using the word 'pain' is human, mammal or animal centric. It has certain higher level implications beyond a chemical response to a stimulus, in my opinion.

    You could say  plants can trigger an adaptive response that shifts resources away from the optimum for growing and reproducing quickly to one of defence. But I am unconvinced it is really 'pain'.

    But if you grow them in small pots, or close together, or with limited water, light or food, or under different temperatures, you also get adaptive behaviour.

  • in reply to Stuart333
    Stuart333 said:
    Plants have no nervous system or focal point such as a brain. With nowhere to feel pain it is hard to say they feel anything.

    That is puting it in a very species centric way. 

    Awareness is not necessarily the same as sentience. It was clearly shown by the research I linked to that when plants are harmed, the exhibit what is effectively a pain response.

    You could also argue that insects have much simpler processing units (I doubt they are analogus to human brains) so would they also not "feel" anything.

    How about fungus? It is a massively more complex thing than a simple plant, can connect whole hosts of bodies and achieve control over insect brains for example.

    Just because we don't see it as analogous to our minds, does not mean these things cannot be afforded the same consideration.

    As  says, we have to make a decision at what point in the hierarchy we chose to begin consuming the beings in order to survive.

    Stuart333 said:
    Grass has evolved to be eaten

    You could equally argue that some groups of people have evolved to be slaves and have lots of kids to replace those who get taken. It is a survival tactic in response to an environmental threat but it does not mean that grass does not suffer.

  • in reply to Iain

    Plants have no nervous system or focal point such as a brain. With nowhere to feel pain it is hard to say they feel anything. Feelings are much more complicated.

    Sensing and feeling are not the same. My eyes sense light, but I see with my brain.

    You have reflex actions, like with you knee, that do not involve your brain. You  don't feel it till after you've moved. Indeed reflexes work even if the spinal cord is broken and no message gets to the brain, in which you feel nothing.

    If I stab my finger with a pin it is my brain that experiences something. I get bleeding, clotting, some swelling, histamine, immune responses regardless. Take pain killers or cut the nerve and it all still works. So the local response is separate from the experience.

    The plant's chemical responses to stimuli cause various cellular functions to be switched on or off. Vascular plants obviously have a mechanism to signal to more than the neighbouring cells. But a chemical in the sap, like a hormone in the blood, does not generate any feeling directly.

    Insomuch as individual cells can respond, then they are the same as any living thing, but a single cell does not seem to have a mechanism to feel anything.

    Is cutting the grass murder? Not really. You don't kill the grass. Grass has evolved to be eaten and the blades grow from the bottom. 

  • in reply to Iain

    I did find that when I was meditating a lot I got a bit to aware of other souls, including those of plants. I've had to do some wrestling with my concience to come to terms with the idea of the world being a big restaurant and everybody eating each others babies, even if it is a lettuce. I hate the sound of chain saws because I'm aware of the fear they cause trees.

    I think the discoveries of mycelium fibres in connecting plants to each other and aiding communication is amazing, but it also made me think 'finally' as plants talking to each other and everything else has been part of my awareness since childhood. At least nobody can tell me I'm crazy and imaginative anymore. It's the worlds wide web, it's the wyrd and our own internet seems a bit puny by comparrison. I wonder if the worlds wide web gets trolls trying sell it bitcoin?