University philosophy courses: a bucketful of ethical sh*t

Iain, I'm sorry if I took your post wrongly, but in my defence you so often sound like you're trying to scold me, or even worse make me conform to some ideal of humanity. I'm far from perfect, I don't even try and be perfect and nor do I want to be. I'm a cat, if you try and herd me you'll get scratched, simple as.

I do think you and I are a bit chalk and cheese, for one thing you appear to care much more than I do about getting on with others and I really don't care that much.

Your trolley pic has a loop beyond the people so they'd all get driven over regardless of which direction it went first.

Autistic thought is always better with definite answers, vagueness and ambiguity is either annoying or distressing or both. We are able to plaster over that a bit but ultimately we crave a proper answer.

I hope you find the answers you need, you sound frustrated and angry with everything, hopefully you'll find a way past that.

TheCatWoman said:

Wow, thanks Iain, I really needed that mansplaining to to me

That was rude.

It may be your autism contributing to this but I was trying to offer you insights into why things are the way the are when you say it often results in arguements and annoyances.

I'lll leave you in peace as you seem particularly hostile to me recently and I have only ever tried to he helpful. I'm sorry if you took this as mysogeny but your gender has never been a factor in my interactions.

I can't take this regular berating.

Wow, thanks Iain, I really needed that mansplaining to to me. Has it ever occured to you that I might not want to be around people who's conversation is so binary?

Compromise, I an relate this back to my abusive relationships thread, I've noticed over the years that compromise means something different to what it's said to mean, ie I'm the one who compromises all the time and nobody else does. I thought compromise really meant that we all give up a little of what we want so as we all get most of what we want.

I'm nearly always the person who acts in a crisis, the one who runs towards trouble not away from it. I once organised what could of been a major accident, when a mini van crashed into a wall and flipped on its side. I called ambulances, police and organised turning places in both directions for oncoming traffic. I was praised by the 999 call handler and the police for my actions, which allowed the apropriate response vehicles to attend and gave a clear statement to police, the woman in the car in front, just went totally blank and couldn't even knock on a door and ask to use a phone.

TheCatWoman said:

what really bugs people is my refusal to play at all and to go off and do something else.

I think this is because you are rejecting them (in their eyes) rather than rejecting the arguement.

By walking away you are socially rejecting their presence as a protest. Rejecting the arguement would normally involve saying no and trying to change the subject to something less contentious but instead you reject both the arguement and them.

Sometimes to be socially accepted you need to change the narrative and say something like "I'll answer the question only if you make a donation to the local cat charity".

Here you are not rejecting them but making it conditional and the chances are they will back down.

Compromise is an essential part of most social interactions after all.

To look or not to look, that is the question? Always look, otherwise you'll miss my blindingly brilliant answers and ideas. You have been warned!

Ahh I'm not sure that job centre person gave you the best advice... lol those people always get found out, too! 

TheCatWoman said:

I said that futher down in the thread!

I didn't go down that far.  I feared a CatWoman comment might be down there 

I said that futher down in the thread!

Try this Buddhist one, 'which is stronger the irristable force or the immovable object?' This one really vexes people and I've had some epic arguments with people about it, oddly enough people who've like the trolley problem, they say it's imppossible, but its really not, its as much about encounraging you to think outside the box and your own thought processes as having the "right" answer, because I don't think there is one.

When I think about these moral questions, I always remember Capt Kirk, who when faced with a similar problem, reprogramed the computer, his tutors had a fit and failed him, but it still became and legend in Starfleet.

If I don't hear from you again I know I have.  And left me with a huge guilt trip.



Seriously.  You know there is no definitive answer to this trolley thing.  You are meant to ruminate over it, that's the whole point.  Seems the longer the better.  Just write loads (you don't need to believe any of it)

Alas, it is a requirement.

What a fantastic solution. I think you may have solved my issue. 

And I'm good, friend...sorta good...will be good in one week, give or take a few days. Always great to hear from you.

I agree. And clearly the choice not to engage with a hypothetical question is not the same as chosing not to act in a crisis. However its been my observation that if you leave things to the last minuet sometimes life does present you with binary choices. But they are only binary because you have to make a snap judgment to act or not. I've you'd considered it ahead of time, in say a hypothetical, other options might have been apparent.

The troly problem also invites you to think "could I derail the trolly? Would that risk more lives? Who keeps going around tying people to tracks shouldn't some one do something about that."

As someone who has taught at university, please don't do this! This is very bad advice. Using AI is plagiarism and when we spot it (which we will) it gives us an awful headache in terms of paperwork we need to fill out to follow the university procedure on plagiarism... TurnItIn is getting better at spotting AI generated text every day, and so are your lecturers. Not only that but AI is also not very reliable at properly referencing their work (even if you prompt them to) so they may well spew out an answer that is chopped up bits of other people's work without crediting them or using quotation marks. I've had a student turn in a paper that TurnItIn flagged about 90% of it as plagiarism - Turns out it was written by ChatGPT... The better advice is if you really don't like the subject, stop studying it and find something else that you want to do instead. 

If it bothers you that much, just lay down in front of the trolley & let nature take it's course.  I guess you can pray for a speedy solution.  What happens after it dispenses with you is immaterial because, lets face it - you did try to slow it down by placing yourself on the track !!

I'm joking.  Don't try this out at home etc. 

How are you doing Max? 

That would be a really heroic choice! 

TheCatWoman said:

I don't think I could live with the mental consequenses of choosing who to save and who to let live

Neither could I! But isn't it really interesting to get to think about these things? Every choice is acceptable, and shows the character of the person who made it. 

I remember your post about abusive relationships and I'm thinking that maybe we should ask people this kind of questions when we first meet them. Maybe we'll get to see their real selves (if they answer honestly).

What if my choice was to throw myself in front of the trolley, I'd be killed, but maybe the trolley would derail and save everybody else? I don't think I could live with the mental consequenses of choosing who to save and who to let live.

That’s a good example. 

The trolley dilemma was developed by philosopher Philippa Foot in 1967, and is also described as the principle of double effect. It was developed in the context of abortion. Being used as a game is indeed kind of silly! It's not fun at all!

At one time I would have agreed with you.  But my more recent experience is that the cheats get ahead.  In fact I was ordered to lie and cheat.

The job centre referred me to a private company to 'help' me find work.  There, I was reluctant to apply for certain vacancies because I didn't meet the minimum qualification threshold.  There, the employment advisor shouted at me in front of other people, "NOBOBY IS GOING TO CHECK OR ASK TO SEE CERTIFICATES,  IF THEY ASK FOR A QUALIFICATION,  YOU ALWAYS HAVE IT!"

Later I asked her what happens if I get a job that I cannot do.  Her reply was, "That's someone else's problem ".