So it turns out your phone is eavesdropping on you

Most or if not all smart technology devices will be listening in on you and anyone else you are communicating with, involving also geo-location tracking and all that unless you disable it, or else have the technological components that are involved removed.

A relatively recent article on 'Your air fryer is listening - the rise of the spying smart device' might be worth a read, along with 'Is your Christmas present spying on you? How to assess privacy risks.' from a few years back.

I've never switched on the Alexa thing on my kindle.

I must be very boring to listen to too, but I suspect it just listens for key words and phrases, so it probably waits a long time with me.

The UK security services have a "no apple" policy for some reason.

Some also physically destroy the webcams on their none-apple laptops.

Don't ask me how I know this, because I'd have to...

... Lie. (Or refuse to answer of course, which I'd probably choose)

OK.  All understood.  I respect your right to write what you write.  I also respect Iain to write what he writes.  I personally choose to trust the other members of this (dwindling) community to draw whatever conclusion they chose to settle upon with regard to this matter.....and moreover....won't think any less of them whether they a) choose to care at all b) or fall on one side of this matter - or the other! 

Perhaps this is the difference between us Bunny?  I never need a right -v- wrong answer.  I think all answers and opinions are valid and worthy of air?  I am happy to leave matters hanging in the air, without fighting for a conclusion.

The way this works is that a whole BUNCH of people al who play hard life games now have aceess to a great deal of information about US, (largely with our blessing or co-operation) but we still know nothing about THEM.

It's the essential assymetry adn the depth of the whole thing I don't like.

IF KIer goes full pol pot and decides to wipe out Autists, or people who drive VW passats or whatever goup they select for making an example of to keep the rest cowed, that group will have no where to hide. 

If governement was a bit more interested in protecting children or even the crimes that affect US, MAYBE the endless snooping could be good, but it won't be used for high moral purposes, it'll be used to sell us timeshares and monitor us for lucrative infringements of "law" etc...

Iain said:

You can see why this led to me labelling you as naive - sorry if this hurts but is seems entirely justified by Apples own admission.

No. Being disrespectful and insulting me by accusing me of being naive - and then doubling down on it here - is not justified, either by the historic facts (which relate to a very particular set of circumstances) that you’re referring to in a continuing effort to browbeat me, or morally.

There are many different facets to this case, which both parties have agreed to settle.

I won’t be engaging with any more of your bullying.

I think my Alexa listens to me when I don't ask her to. I've put an eye mask over the screen, as I don't trust the screen not to spy, despite the slide button. Paranoia possibly, but hey ho. 

The EU had made a ruling that Apple has to pay 13 Billion to the Irish government in unpaid taxes and the Irish government (revenue commissioners) has to accept this money in a totally bizarre case running for several years now 

Most computers can’t cope with many regional accents, including many regional Irish accents either, depending on what part of Ireland you are from - it really struggles with the working-class Dublin accent, the Donegal Accent, the Meath INavan & Kells) accent, the Louth (Drogheda and Dundalk) accent, the Westmeath (Mullingar & Athlone) Offaly (Tullamore) Laois (Portlaoise) the Limerick accent, the Cork accent and the Kerry accent 

I’d never get an Alexa as I don’t see the point of it - the only reason I got a smartphone was for the vaccine passports that the Irish government were insisting on, as I was desperate to visit my family in Ireland during Covid from the U.K., even though I have always held and renewed an Irish passport (with increasing difficulty during and after Brexit) in the 24 years I’ve lived in the U.K. - I was doing a course online and most stuff like paying bills are online based, as well as contacting family in Ireland via Zoom, which was the only reason I got this iPad Pro as my main internet device, ordered online during Covid lockdown 

Bunny said:

But I’m not going to quietly accept fake facts

With the links to law.com articles pointing out that Apple admitted to eavesdropping ( from https://www.law.com/newyorklawjournal/2019/09/06/eavesdropping-and-spying-by-smart-tvs-and-devices/

"On August 28, Forbes reported that Apple apologized for the eavesdropping")

Are you still defending this as fake facts? You can see why this led to me labelling you as naive - sorry if this hurts but is seems entirely justified by Apples own admission.

Unknown said:

Perhaps, more importantly, I am pretty sure that Iain's defence of his own OPINION cannot amount to him being patronising towards you?!

Thank you for making my point for me.

My whole point is that Iain is (again) presenting his OPINION as if it is a FACT.

Iain is evidently strongly attached to the conclusion that he’s come to. I have no issue with him holding or defending his beliefs / opinions (obviously, I’d have hoped).

But I do feel it’s perfectly reasonable for me to point out when he makes factually false statements, when he is rude to me, and/or when he tries to bully / browbeat me in response. 

The article - objectively, factually - does not confirm what he said it does:

Iain said:

I saw an article today that confirmed what I have suspected for years now - mobile phones have been monitoring us and using the info to sell to advertisers:

Neither the claim, the settlement, nor the article constitutes confirmation of his hypothesis / OPINION as a fact.

I’ve actually been following this case for a while, btw. So it happens that I know quite a lot about it. But that’s neither here nor there. Because I haven’t posted at any point within this thread to state or discuss my own opinion.

Apple has always been vehemently protective of its users personal data and privacy. But I’m not saying they would have won or lost the case, or that they have or haven’t done anything wrong.

It is a fact that there are perfectly legitimate reasons why any party might choose to settle a matter for reasons other than any potential guilt on their part.

Iain tends to express his OPINIONS very strongly. I’ve noticed that, when challenged, rather than accept that he might be overly attached to his opinions, have presented them inaccurately, and/or and that there are are other potential opinions, he instead often seems to follow tactics that are typical in bullying: DARVO (Deny, Attack, and Reverse Victim and Offender). This includes questioning the credentials of the person who is holding them to account, before ultimately claiming to be the victim themselves.

He has denied my observation (citing his supposed superior knowledge), attacked me (by strongly - and very condescendingly / patronisingly - by implying that I am “naive in the extreme”), and started the reversal efforts by claiming that “Patronising is … starting to sound a lot like you at the moment.”.

This isn’t the first time that Iain has turned to these tactics when, instead, he could simply have accepted the factual observation, and acknowledged that his conclusion was just his opinion and that other conclusions are possible.

Black and white thinking is to be expected with autism. But I’m not going to quietly accept fake facts, or accept being bullied for pointing them out.

I'm not wholly sure that it  does.....in a meaningful way.......given the evidence and facts.

Perhaps, more importantly, I am pretty sure that Iain's defence of his own OPINION cannot amount to him being patronising towards you?!  When does defence of one's own view become patronising of another view?

I intend no ill-will towards you Bunny......nor do I especially like, nor connect with Iain in any special nor private means (I STRONGLY suspect that neither of us [ie Iain and me] particularly like each others views in many respects).......but a thread earlier made me think that perhaps I should stop being so accommodating of injustice (as I see it.)

Please stop attacking people here, and their views.  Please stop attempting to dictate what is "right" and what is "reasonable."

PS......Wiser and more seasoned souls from this place (now sadly departed, either from choice or from death) have kindly informed us/me that this time of year is ESPECIALLY ripe with people de-caging themselves......sometimes, inadvisedly!    However, at this juncture, I feel compelled to wade in......for good or ill.

Yes, these things should definitely be known by us. 

We should talk about such things more (and perhaps more importantly than talking)....NOTICE what things are afoot.  Only us, as individuals, can notice the nuances, and penetration, of "their" knowledge of us.

Bunny said:

neither the action nor the settlement - in which Apple denies wrongdoing and the claims - confirms or proves anything.

From https://www.law.com/newyorklawjournal/2019/09/06/eavesdropping-and-spying-by-smart-tvs-and-devices/

Apple announced that it "will turn it off by default and bring the human evaluation process in-house." Jeb Su, "Apple Apologizes for Eavesdropping on Customers, Keeping Siri Recordings Without Permission," Forbes (Aug. 28, 2019).

5 years ago Apple admitted to it - the case here is that they never actually stopped.

Agreed it doesn't confirm or deny they were in the wrong but they were caught once doing this and agreed to pay up again now - can you possibly draw the conclusion that they are innocent?

I turned off the internet on my phone and made it dumb, so it can't eavesdrop on me.

However, I have a Kindle tablet with Alexa and although I tried to disable her, I think she is spying on me....

(Maybe soon she'll start singing Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer do?)

The spying could have its uses. If I am looking for a rare book or movie. Alas, it seems to be better at throwing out endless ads for relatively mundane things, like hoovers or washing powders. 

Some smart TVs can spy too. Telecscreen, anyone? 

I've suspected for years that this has been happening. I can't say I'm happy about it. But I feel sorry for anyone/anything that is listening. Because I have far from an interesting life. 

Just me testing, to see if I'm "in moderated prison."  Weird stuff happened when trying to respond to a different thread just now.........will let you know (if I can!)