which came first the chicken or the egg?

I am just thinking about why we have anxiety, and at its simplist level the reason seems to be because we are having to conform to social norms.  If no one cares what you did or didn't do, would you suffer from anxiety?  If at some level you didn't care, would you be anxious.

I also think that  some of the behaviour we see in children that seem controlling, ie not eating certain foods, avoiding things, gives them a sense of control over  their environment and can reduce their anxiety, if it is not made to be the focal point that needs correcting, would the intensity diminish naturally? .  In other words it is the one thing that they have found that they have control over.   It has become a source of comfort, which may explain why they will not give it up easily.

Rather than focusing our attention on eliminating the behaviour that is working at some level for our child, should we not instead give them a different focal point that they can control, and maybe their need to engage in the less desirable behaviour will diminish.

Also I wonder if these behaviours are driven by an innate drive for independence that all children are driven to, a genetic driving force.  Having any level of control is an inbuilt requirement for our survival.

Welcome thoughts on this? 

 

Parents
  • I've expressed these theories before on other threads, so please bear with me if you've heard me waffle on about them before.

    I think some elements of anxiety arise because we don't pick up feedback from others. We therefore need to analyse situations in order to try to work out what happened. That leads to a propensity to explore all possible outcomes or implications of a situation, which leads in turn to a propensity to worry through many situations and all their negative outcomes, and even to lose sight of reality (would these outcomes really happen?).

    My understanding of the NT world is that they play games, sparring with each other, to find out each other's standpoints. That involves using and reading body language, intonation, inflexion, shrugs, looks etc. There's a lot of teasing, white lies, provocation and attempts to undermine that are all part of these games.

    The point of this is that NTs quickly work out whether they made a mistake or offended someone, or whether someone's adverse reaction was real or feigned for effect, whether they are being teased or lied to. They still experience misunderstandings. But the other important point is that they usually forget what transpired within minutes. They don't dwell on it. These communication issues occur so frequently that they are commonplace and readily forgotten.

    If you are on the spectrum you don't get much social interaction practice, and where it occurs you don't pick up much of the sparring, and don't get a chance to find out whether someone's having fun at your expense, lying to you, or genuinely annoyed or offended.

    So the only way you can resolve what you think might have happened is to go over events and analyse. The propensity to analyse frequently fuels a growing propensity to worry. Far from forgetting little incidents they go on in your head for months, years, lifetimes.

    So to approach it as "chicken and egg" social skills are a major contributing factor to a higher propensity to worry and get anxious.

    Routines and consistent practices provide secure reference points in a world otherwise lacking.

    Providing other focal points might help. But I think we need to go further than most to reduce the analysis process. Try to remind yourself that many imagined outcomes are very unlikely. Try to use break words/phrases to interrupt worry cycles, or use brief physical discomfort - the rubber band flick on the inside of the wrist, or finger flick on an ear lobe is often sufficient. Carry a notebook and write down current worry subjects - set down on paper they can be left to a more appropriate analysis time. Write a list of priority worries and try to address those that are more easily resolved.

    Find instances where you can ask someone who was present at a event of concern to clarify what happened - someone you can trust not to capitalise on it or tease (not easy). Ask someone to intercede for you. Write an apology note to someone you think you may have offended - over caution might look odd, but it might also help you reduce worry. Ask someone you can trust to give you regular reassurance. OK finding someone you can trust is not easy.

    Like True Colors I'm always travelling to places way too early. Any journey I have to write out a plan, with alternatives, and carry it with me - might not actually take it out and look at it, but I keep it with me.

    I don't mention the Asperger's....well hardly ever. Mine is at the abler/milder end, whatever that means, so I don't think it lets me down that much, but I am very conscious about where it can let me down. As I've said before I do a lot of observing situations, and confronting uncomfortable environments. I do it so I know when I'm likely to get into difficulties and when it is OK to live dangerously. And I keep trying to increase my exposure to uncomfortable situations. Otherwise I'm prone to retreat.

    I do find people's understanding of autism is limited and driven by stereotypes. Also a lot of people say I cannot be. 

    But that is the danger for those better able to pass themselves off as NTs. You then get bad reactions because people think I'm messing them about, being deceitful, being rude or cheeky etc., because I don't have control of my responses and I misread situations. An then there's that menace called eye contact - I manage most of the time, but there's always someone who gets up tight about it.

Reply
  • I've expressed these theories before on other threads, so please bear with me if you've heard me waffle on about them before.

    I think some elements of anxiety arise because we don't pick up feedback from others. We therefore need to analyse situations in order to try to work out what happened. That leads to a propensity to explore all possible outcomes or implications of a situation, which leads in turn to a propensity to worry through many situations and all their negative outcomes, and even to lose sight of reality (would these outcomes really happen?).

    My understanding of the NT world is that they play games, sparring with each other, to find out each other's standpoints. That involves using and reading body language, intonation, inflexion, shrugs, looks etc. There's a lot of teasing, white lies, provocation and attempts to undermine that are all part of these games.

    The point of this is that NTs quickly work out whether they made a mistake or offended someone, or whether someone's adverse reaction was real or feigned for effect, whether they are being teased or lied to. They still experience misunderstandings. But the other important point is that they usually forget what transpired within minutes. They don't dwell on it. These communication issues occur so frequently that they are commonplace and readily forgotten.

    If you are on the spectrum you don't get much social interaction practice, and where it occurs you don't pick up much of the sparring, and don't get a chance to find out whether someone's having fun at your expense, lying to you, or genuinely annoyed or offended.

    So the only way you can resolve what you think might have happened is to go over events and analyse. The propensity to analyse frequently fuels a growing propensity to worry. Far from forgetting little incidents they go on in your head for months, years, lifetimes.

    So to approach it as "chicken and egg" social skills are a major contributing factor to a higher propensity to worry and get anxious.

    Routines and consistent practices provide secure reference points in a world otherwise lacking.

    Providing other focal points might help. But I think we need to go further than most to reduce the analysis process. Try to remind yourself that many imagined outcomes are very unlikely. Try to use break words/phrases to interrupt worry cycles, or use brief physical discomfort - the rubber band flick on the inside of the wrist, or finger flick on an ear lobe is often sufficient. Carry a notebook and write down current worry subjects - set down on paper they can be left to a more appropriate analysis time. Write a list of priority worries and try to address those that are more easily resolved.

    Find instances where you can ask someone who was present at a event of concern to clarify what happened - someone you can trust not to capitalise on it or tease (not easy). Ask someone to intercede for you. Write an apology note to someone you think you may have offended - over caution might look odd, but it might also help you reduce worry. Ask someone you can trust to give you regular reassurance. OK finding someone you can trust is not easy.

    Like True Colors I'm always travelling to places way too early. Any journey I have to write out a plan, with alternatives, and carry it with me - might not actually take it out and look at it, but I keep it with me.

    I don't mention the Asperger's....well hardly ever. Mine is at the abler/milder end, whatever that means, so I don't think it lets me down that much, but I am very conscious about where it can let me down. As I've said before I do a lot of observing situations, and confronting uncomfortable environments. I do it so I know when I'm likely to get into difficulties and when it is OK to live dangerously. And I keep trying to increase my exposure to uncomfortable situations. Otherwise I'm prone to retreat.

    I do find people's understanding of autism is limited and driven by stereotypes. Also a lot of people say I cannot be. 

    But that is the danger for those better able to pass themselves off as NTs. You then get bad reactions because people think I'm messing them about, being deceitful, being rude or cheeky etc., because I don't have control of my responses and I misread situations. An then there's that menace called eye contact - I manage most of the time, but there's always someone who gets up tight about it.

Children
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