Autistic and Christian

Beautiful reminder of what I need to know: thank you. 

Yes, but if you rejected Christianity because of a reason which is not correct then it would be remiss of me not to point that out.

I'm not a Christian though so it doesn't matter to me what the bible says.
This is what I'm saying: Still a believer, but a whole different religion.

I am sorry you have had this experience. Some people get physically healed, but as you say autism is how we are. 

You also mention about it being boring if we were all alike (sorry not worked out how to copy it). That is so true, we all have a part to play which is unique to us.

Hmmm, yes I've had a Christian person or two get quite angry when I say I am grateful the Great Spirit created me autistic... the sensory burden is hard to bare, but otherwise, I like my autistim, so thanks, God! I'm grateful. They rather angrily think I should be praying for my deliverance or healing or something...healing from what?  I'm not ill.  It's such a shame that they can't see variety as a marvel of creation and we are all little reflections of different aspects of our creator whatever our neurology.  It would be a bit boring if we were alike.

🐝 Bees 🐝 (they/them) Autism resources in bio #stoptheshock #NothingAboutUsWithoutUs said:

And it never sat right with me that a loving omnipotent God would require anyone to change or "be fixed" to be worthy of love.

But that is not what the Bible says. "While we were still sinners, Christ died for us" (Romans 5:8) and "greater love has nobody than this, that one lay down one's life for one's friends" (John 15:13). So God loves us before we change.

In fact, we are not able to change enough to be worthy of anything. Whatever we do is imperfect, and we know it. I know I get things wrong, and hurt people without meaning to, or maybe even deliberately in a bad mood! I don't love enough. I cannot live up to my own standards and this makes me feel bad. So God who loves us and wants a relationship with us has to help us.

Once we have accepted his help, he will begin to fix us. Both physically and spiritually, although not to perfection in this life. But not without our permission and co-operation, we can resist the process. That it takes time and that people resist is why churches are full or people who are still broken. But we know we are broken and we are in the process of mending.

Personally, I want to change and to be changed, because i am painfully aware of my own imperfections. I don't mean that I regard being autistic as an imperfection, but i am not even all that good at being autistic! I make lots of mistakes and gets stuff wrong and I don't like getting stuff wrong.

I'm sure an omnipotent God could have made people perfect to start with, so he must have a good reason for doing it this way. I don't know what it is, but I trust him that it is for the best somehow, even though it doesn't make sense to me and hurts. I know he loves me even though I fail, but he wants the best for me so will help me as I try to do better.

This is why I drifted to the pagan side of unitarianism.
I also don't attend congregations/meets.
I know what you mean. Although that born into sin and needing to be fixed is also applied to NT and able bodied people, it is definitely magnified when it comes to any of us who are the "other." And it never sat right with me that a loving omnipotent God would require anyone to change or "be fixed" to be worthy of love.
Also people praying for the "hand of God" to help is kinda silly*... I don't think people realise there are many hands of God, because the hand of God is you, it's me, and the man on the street. It's in the acts of everyday kindness we do for people. Everytime you put spare change in the guide dog collection box, etc.
*There's nothing wrong with prayer as a wish when the power to do is out of our own hands, but just wishing for something when you can actually put energy into enacting it instead is a waste of time imo.
Frankie Laine's "I Believe" is as much about human kindness as it is a metaphysical deity, we can all be that "someone" somewhere ready to help eachother. : )

p.s. I love your profile pic, "Fuschia is a dancer, dancing on her toes" I remember it from the book.

AuTriker said:

I would not be surprised if the result was closer to autistic than NT!

".....coming into being before coming into being."  One of my favs - but non-canonical - Tom.

I would like my physical disability fixing, although i accept this might not be in this life. But I do not see my autism as a disability. In fact when we are all changed, I would not be surprised if the result was closer to autistic than NT!

I know some churches are like you say, but it is a result of a poor understanding of scripture. Did Paul not have enough faith to heal Timothy's stomach that he advised him to take a little wine? Or the helper he had to leave behind sick? So it should not be expected that everyone one prays for will be instantly healed.

God does care about people being treated unfairly, there is much in the Bible about this, which many Christians do sadly seem to miss somehow. I do pray for the sort of things you mention, as do many Christians I know. But yes, we are all flawed and many of us get it wrong and this does have bad results like putting people off.

For me the hardest part was always when they tea abd coffee afterwards and I was always the one left out.  This has happened in several different churches.  

There's also the issue of institutional ableism.  A lot of theology is based on the idea that humans are broken and God will fix them, but it also says that desease and siffering are a result of the Fall, and most Christians I know would include any kind of disability in this.  Churches often see disabled people as something for God to fix.  And then if they pray and you don't become miraculously healed then it's because you don't have enough faith, or the right kind of faith.  

Honestly, if people believe prayer really works, why don't they spend more time praying for things that really matter like equal rights or fixing the state of the NHS.

You are very blessed to have found this.  I am happy for you.

Beautiful to read: so inspiring.  Thank you 

Hi , my church is one place I fit in. I can wear my hat all the time and no one stares at me. I can really be myself. We have a community garden and I’ve just started volunteering in it. I get a sense of peace and I love reading the psalms. Take care.

Not sure. I haven't got a church right now, which is a very difficult situation as I do believe we ought to be part of a fellowship. But the one I was in, which was very small and like a close family, got taken over by people whose theology i could not agree with so we had to leave. Also, as part of that, they were not being careful with covid, and I am being very cautious because of my arthritis. We did go to another very small church in the summer of 2021 but that closed in the autumn for other reasons and since then we have just been doing online church. I want to find another small church, as those do seem more suitable.

I could not cope with a large noisy church. My husband used to go to one and I did increasingly find it difficult. The music was so loud I actually could not walk in there one time, it was like a wall of sound, almost like a physical barrier! I did get him to email them and they just said they had a quiet service but it was too early in the morning for my arthritis which takes a while to get going. I did feel it was wrong for them to have it so loud, it was probably damaging babies hearing! Also they displayed the words to the songs at the front but had lights right by the words which they would sometimes rotate into our eyes! Why?!!! Far too much like some kind of rock concert, which is not an environment I find appealing. If we had moved to his location rather than to mine we would not have been going to that church!

Since I only discovered my autism during lockdown I don't know how my old church would have handled it. I doubt it would have made any difference, I am still the same person and probably need more accommodations for my physical disability than for my autism per se (as it was never noisy). The people who took over would not have been understanding I am sure, and they had the little kids in the service playing, often noisily, which i do not find appropriate as they ought to be out the back learning in a way suitable for their age, not disrupting things for everyone else and the sermon going over their heads. Plus of course they did not accommodate my need for covid safety!

I do enjoy a Bible study. In fact for the last year or two I have been studying Biblical languages online via live video classes which has been so interesting and enjoyable, and have been doing Greek exegesis classes too which I love because it is so useful to go really deep into the word of God in such a nerdy, yet also spiritual way. And I listen to theology lecture videos and theology podcasts so that part of me is being fed. But I do need fellowship in person not just on video, and being able to take communion not just at home with the video.

I feel bad about it as it sometimes feels like am I not trusting God? But he might be protecting me by keeping me home for a time. I also worry about the effect on my husband. We can't live like this forever, although part of me does like being a hermit! And will I struggle going back? probably. But now i understand more about my autism that might help.

I'd like an online Bible study group.

I’m Jewish, not Christian, but I definitely struggle with synagogue: too many people, too much noise, and sometimes we have a cantor who doesn’t sing so much as shout (very uncomfortable for me). The refreshments after the service are also difficult: being expected to make small talk, difficulty hearing what people say to me over the general noise, etc.

Religious study in the Jewish community is supposed to be in pairs, which I have not been good at. My brain just stops working when someone is sitting opposite me expecting me to say something insightful. I just study by myself

Then there’s the social expectations to be married by age twenty-five and have a big family. Also the fact that Judaism expects people to have a lot of energy and focus to meet the requirements of prayer, religious study, ritual observance and family, alongside work, and that’s hard even without factoring in autistic exhaustion and being “out of spoons,” not to mention the issues I noted above.

What I have learnt is that a small church is better than a larger church, as in a small church it is essentially a big family and so it is easier to be oneself. That we should pray about everything including how to fit in and should ask God how he wants us to serve at church. For me that meant becoming the main meeter and greeter on the door, which was a massive ask but I have now been doing it virtually every week for 9 to 12 months as it shows me love for our father in heaven. 

Small group bible studies are ace and ideally should have no more than four people in them. In the one I run on a Monday night there are three of us, myself who is openly autistic, a grand mother who has autistic kids and may be on the spectrum as a result, and a special needs lecturer who I also suspect is on the spectrum. We study bible passages line by line, look at different translations, look at the original greek and various concordances in order to try and get an in depth handle on each passage. Often our discussions move far from the start, so for instance on Monday we were looking at why the shepherds were in the nativity, which ended up leading onto whether Mary, Joseph and Jesus went to Eqypt from Bethlehem or Nazareth. 

The hardest part for me at church can often be tea and coffee afterwards dependent who is around to chat with.

What I find more difficult is my own personal prayer life and my attitude towards money and sin.

I would love to be involved with an autistic Bible group, or make more autistic Christian friends. I find attending church overwhelming at times, but there is still a real comfort and welcome at my home church. At my home church, the seat I've always sat in is available, I know what will happen and I don't feel a pressure to socialise if I don't have the capacity. I've struggled to find a church since moving away, and often get overwhelmed by welcoming committees, not knowing what to expect exactly and loud music/incense. I also feel that I tend to connect with my faith in a way that's different to neurotypical people, and I struggle with metaphors which are everywhere in Christianity haha. I do find attending church online easier but that sense of community with other believers is then often missing. As a queer Christian I already find it hard to find welcoming spaces, but this definitely adds an extra layer!

i'm muslim idk

I desperately need God irrespective of whether God exists or not.  I nurture the best concept I can have of that God in myself and do my best to improve conscious contact with it despite the seeming impossibility imposed by my own negativity and the lack of support from most humans I meet.

Mortality makes humans unreliable in the end so depending on them for the answers that matter is like depending on squirrels or trees for the answers that really matter.  
Church is sufficiently supportive and nurturing of aspect of my spiritual needs but it is the best efforts of human beings and I have to allow them their flaws, mistakes and the weaknesses that  mortality imposes.

Christianity has always been misrepresented because no one represents it perfectly except the first one. But it is still worth it for non-Gods to try to represent Christianity to the best of their ability: progress not perfection.  

Kim that is me exactly - i.e. wondering about all these things and trying to work it all out!  

I don't think my church understands my autism, but we have a new pastor who is really open and sincere, it's just a matter of getting a chance to talk to him about it, at a time when our church is going through a lot of change.

I'd like to know how things are going for you at your church.

But my past experience, under the old ministry team, was that people were generally kind but things haven't worked very well for me - as in when I've tried to help, I try too hard then I crash and burn.  My counsellor, who's a psychologist and a Christian, says I could try committing to things for a few months, then do something else, which sounds like a good plan.

The other things that don't work for me are too much socialising and not coping with too much noise or chaos.  It can be really tiring for me.  I find it hard just walking in and going to a seat sometimes, if that makes sense.

I have only got close really to a couple of ladies in the church.  I've been going there for ten years with my daughters and there are still lots of people who seem to have no idea who I am.  It has hurt a lot at times.

My faith is a different matter - I realised that autism (or my version of autism at least) can be very well suited to reading and loving Scripture, to having a creative prayer time, and to thinking a lot about big picture things about God and all His creation and how everything stands in relationship to Him.

The preaching has always been good at my church which has kept me there.

Anyway I've got to go, I wasn't meant to be looking at the forum just now, but when I saw your post I just had to say something!  Will try to read other people's comments later on.  You're probably all asleep in the UK now anyway I think.