Abortion

David said:

On News Night there were discussing Abortion which is really a kind of murder of babies.

I have heard that there are plans to abort babies because they are Autistic.

It would be possible to tell if the baby has a gene.

Most Donws Syndrome babies who are born are aborteed.

Is it a bad or good thing to abort babies because they are Autistic?

Does anyone know when it is likely to happen?

May be abortion should be reserved for serious cases of Autism.

David

The only time a Doctor may perform an abortion without the pregnant woman's consent may be in a life-threatening situation where the pregnant woman's life would be in danger if an abortion is not carried out.  In such circumstances, the Doctor may have to seek consent from the next of kin.  Thankfully, these are rare and exceptional circumstances.  In all other cases, it must be the pregnant woman who decides whether or not to abort a pregnancy.  

I personally have not heard of this news story and therefore it is not easy to comment authoritatively.  I wonder whether an antenatal screening test has been discovered, which can reveal whether a pregnant woman has an Autism gene and whether the baby will therefore be born autistic?  I do not know of an existing NHS antenatal screening test for autism or an autistic gene, so it is currently not screened for.  

The problem is autism can vary in its degrees of severity, which may make it extremely difficult to ascetain how autistic somebody may be after they are born.  Besides, some of us were not diagnosed until late in life (aged 34 with Asperger, in my case).  

I would be highly surprised (and worried) if an antenatal screening test becomes a part of the NHS antenatal screening programme!  

As for abortion, it is an emotive subject and both sides of the debate can make good points. However, I believe that calling abortion an act of murder is a little emotive and  medically questionable.  At what stage does a feotus become recognisably human shape?  At what stage does a feotus develop the ability to feel pain (assuming it can ever feel pain)?   At what stage does a feotus start to kick in the womb?  In other words, at what stage would the average person consider the moment the feotus is no longer a feotus but an unborn baby?  

Currently, it is legal in England, Wales and Scotland for a woman to have an abortion up to 24 weeks into her pregnancy.  An abortion can be done later than 24 weeks, but this is usually if the fetous dies in the womb or if there is a major medical emergency and the pregnant woman's life is in immediate danger (as previously mentioned), for example.

Sadly, some women involuntarily abort due to miscarriage, which is something that can happen from time to time and is a sad fact of mother nature.  

Similarly, emergency contraception (IUD or emergency contraceptive pill) can be used up to several hours after sex, which can also cause a fertilised egg to abort by causing an hormonal change, preventing the fertilised egg from attaching itself to the lining of the womb.  

For me the problem is that autism is defined as a disability,

if we said that 51 % of the population has autism and 49% had Neurotypical disorder the debate would be different.

Its all a spectrum and a matter of opinion so the line can be drawn anywhere.

Read in a book that, 7 out of 10, mathematic field medal winners have Aspergers at Cambridge. People with similar traits marry, it has been said that if Autism goes down, the IQ of the elite will go down. Scientists, Academics, Artists, Painters, etc

So aborting a child with Autism is illogically for the whole of society, all conditions bring pain but also gain. All life has two sides good and bad.  The coin is not balance on the edge.

Oh dear, no hope for me then - I'm autistic AND bi-polar, also with a bit of psychosis thrown in!

Why not just get rid of everyone who had a more than 25% risk of bipolar disorder ?

Then we would get rid of most of the NT's.

As I see it it depends very much on how you define Autistic, my view is most people who could be classified as autistic are actually superior to NT's, they are more intelligent, more honest, have better concentration and thinking skills and so on.

Bad autistics are also much less damaging to society than people with bipolar disorder or psychopaths, Autistics are happy to go off on their own and do something cheap and harmless, wheras people with personality disorders can be very dangerous and destructive in many ways.

The problem is most autistics seen by medical professionals have other problems that are aggravated by autism, and communication skills can often be a big problem when children are forced into big classes in the modern system.

If bipolar disorder and psychopathy were seen as diseases of NT's rather than speech problems seen as a symptom of autism maybe we would be talking about aborting NT's.

This is an interesting - and difficult subject. Personally I think the lifelong future of a baby should be considered in any pregnancy planned or unplanned, regardless of what medical conditions the baby may or may not have. I think the rights of the child and mother are inmaterial (sp) in this respect and much thought should be given to the responsibilities of providing a happy and safe future. I have strong opinions on this but realise it is an emotive topic. 

There are two opposing rights here David - the rights of the child and the rights of the mother - and a line must be drawn that balances those rights as fairly as possible.

Whether the child is autistic, or not, is irrelevent in the discussion of whether a mother should have the right to choose whether to have an abortion or not.

And, quite frankly, whilst I would hope any partner of mine would consider my feelings in making any such decision, we, men, have absolutely no right to tell women what they should or should not do in this regard.

Are people aware that a new method of being able to discover if the baby is likely to be born Autistic has either being developed or will be developed.?

Many famous scientists were Autistic.

I do not know if it will show before birth if the baby is only mildly Autisitc.

The question must be asked whether it is right to murder Autistic babies before they are even born.  Many Mothers to be would choose to do that.

David

In my opinion, yes, the mother should have the right to choose whether to have an abortion, for any reason.

The debate that has been in the news recently is in regard to when abortion becomes murder (that is how far into the pregnancy is it that the mass of cells, that is the developing fetus, becomes 'a living individual with all the rights of such').

My question really meant if the Doctors tell a Mother to be that the baby is likely to be born Autistic should she be allowed to have an abortion.

I know Mothes in the UK are rarely forced to have an abortioon and on the contrary are sometimes not allowed to have one.

The point is a Mother deciding to have an abortion is a kind of murder stopping her baby coming into this world and living its life even as a disabled person.

David

It is very very very very rare, in this country at least, for a mother to be forced into having an abortion.

Doctors may advise a mother to have one, but at the end of the day it is primarily the mother's choice.

I doubt that will change any time soon.