Characters that are not specified as on the spectrum but probably are. Discuss.

Stevens, the butler in the novel The Remains of the Day. (Kazuo Ishiguro)

Stevens is, an emotionally repressed butler setting off to meet up with a housekeeper and looking back on his time in the household in which they both worked may not be literally concerned with Asperger’s, but for me it illustrates some of the  same problems faced by people with the condition without ever feeling patronising or emotionally predictable. An example that really struck a chord with me was the following moment where Stevens attempts to make small talk while staying overnight at an inn. The landlord and his friends are amiably enquiring whether Stevens slept well:

‘You won’t get much of a sleep up there, sir. Not unless you’re fond of the sound of old Bob’ – he indicated the landlord – ‘banging away down here right the way into the night. And then you’ll get woken by his missus shouting at him right from the crack of dawn’.
Despite the landlord’s protests, this caused loud laughter all round. […] I was struck by the thought […] that some sort of witty retort was required of me. Indeed, the local people were now observing a polite silence, awaiting my next remark. I thus searched my imagination and eventually declared:
‘A local variation on the *** crow, no doubt.’
At first the silence continued, as though the local persons thought I intended to elaborate further. But then noticing the mirthful expression on my face, they broke into a laugh, though in a somewhat bemused fashion. […]
I had been rather pleased with my witticism when it had first come into my head, and I must confess I was slightly disappointed it had not been better received than it was.

Conversely, in the film adaptation Anthony Hopkins played the role of Steven’s. Hopkins is on the spectrum.

The forum censor made the witticism fall even flatter:

A local variation on the cöck crow, no doubt.

I never really 'got' Anthony Hopkins in some way. He usually played quite remote characters. (diagnosed aged 70? Interview 1; Interview 2).

This thread reminds me how little fiction I read these days. Not sure I've finished reading a novel for a year. I know Cloudy Mountains said this was mainly about human characters, but I might particularly identify with Spock being half-human, half-Vulcan, so not fitting in anywhere.

Another character that sticks in my mind and might be disqualified for related reasons is Dr Manhattan from Watchmen. He's very, very... aloof. Has real problems connecting despite usual goodwill and ability. Self-diagnosed blogger Andy Gainey has written a good piece about the autistic characteristics of Doctor Manhattan, Rorschach and other characters in the film adaptation.

I also agree with him about effects of crude depictions when a character is specified as, or unconsciously identified as, autistic - do we actually want accurate depictions? In a similar third piece, he lists some films like Punch Drunk Love and Donnie Darko with possibly autistic characters; in those two examples there is also implication of a mental health diagnosis. I suppose along those line could add The 40-year-old Virgin? We should do something towards evening up the gender balance: apparently Sage Noren from The Bridge isn't actually specified as autistic, nor is Suzanne from Orange is the New Black.

(edit: also looking at explicitly autistic women characters. I haven't seen Snow Cake to my shame. Molly sounds dreadful. Interesting-sounding Hungarian film last year called Of Body and Soul.)

The forum censor made the witticism fall even flatter:

A local variation on the cöck crow, no doubt.

I never really 'got' Anthony Hopkins in some way. He usually played quite remote characters. (diagnosed aged 70? Interview 1; Interview 2).

This thread reminds me how little fiction I read these days. Not sure I've finished reading a novel for a year. I know Cloudy Mountains said this was mainly about human characters, but I might particularly identify with Spock being half-human, half-Vulcan, so not fitting in anywhere.

Another character that sticks in my mind and might be disqualified for related reasons is Dr Manhattan from Watchmen. He's very, very... aloof. Has real problems connecting despite usual goodwill and ability. Self-diagnosed blogger Andy Gainey has written a good piece about the autistic characteristics of Doctor Manhattan, Rorschach and other characters in the film adaptation.

I also agree with him about effects of crude depictions when a character is specified as, or unconsciously identified as, autistic - do we actually want accurate depictions? In a similar third piece, he lists some films like Punch Drunk Love and Donnie Darko with possibly autistic characters; in those two examples there is also implication of a mental health diagnosis. I suppose along those line could add The 40-year-old Virgin? We should do something towards evening up the gender balance: apparently Sage Noren from The Bridge isn't actually specified as autistic, nor is Suzanne from Orange is the New Black.

(edit: also looking at explicitly autistic women characters. I haven't seen Snow Cake to my shame. Molly sounds dreadful. Interesting-sounding Hungarian film last year called Of Body and Soul.)

Cassandro said:

Another character that sticks in my mind and might be disqualified for related reasons is Dr Manhattan from Watchmen. He's very, very... aloof. Has real problems connecting despite usual goodwill and ability. Self-diagnosed blogger Andy Gainey has written a good piece about the autistic characteristics of Doctor Manhattan, Rorschach and other characters in the film adaptation.

I'm so glad you mentioned Watchmen! That article is great. I'm a pretty avid comic reader and the comic isn't much different to the film in it's depictions. Dr. Manhattan's transformation to a different form of conciousness and it's depiction was something that really triggered something in my mind around 2009. I was very, very out of sorts at the time and the inner monologue in the scene was something that would bring a lump in my throat. Lots of feelings there that I felt too. I often get into a frame of mind where I see some of the things people do as futile. I notice things that other people don't and sometimes only see the science of things. It makes me distant sometimes and has driven me to the edge. Obviously I don't have superpowers but the outlook on the world Manhattan has to come to terms with and control is very relatable.

That article is great. The scene with Rorchach and Nite Owl 2 where he says "I know it can be diffcult with me sometimes" is another relatable part of the film. Watchmen is regardless of Alan Moore's opinion, the best modern superhero film.

Comics are much richer in actual sensitive, relatable and well expressed story lines than they are given credit for especially when it comes to mental health. Some of the Legion stuff is a bit crass but that's his schtick, Legion has an Autistic personality amongst his 200 others. I enjoyed the St. Croix twins storyline in Marvel. Claudette has Autism and Nicole helps her navigate the world. Claudette is much more powerful but Nicole is more practical. They find a solution for them to work together but I won't spoil it if anyone wants to read.

One character I forgot is Reed Richards who is also known as Mr. Fantastic of the Fantastic Four. He isn't confirmed as Autistic but Sue and even himself have alluded to it. Obsessive, ordered, and slightly eccentric. Rumour has it that Marvel are making it a storyline.

Cassandro said:

I know Cloudy Mountains said this was mainly about human characters, but I might particularly identify with Spock being half-human, half-Vulcan, so not fitting in anywhere.

I suppose Spock is neurodiverse in both cultures, I sort of missed the point there. Let's forget the non-human rule thing! Who am I to make stipulations? Let's have some fun with this! Besides is Dr. Manhattan human anymore? It's debatable! He started as a human but he's more of a being made from energy. Good find on that article! Great reading!

Cassandro said:

hen a character is specified as, or unconsciously identified as, autistic - do we actually want accurate depictions?

For me, it is the portrayal of "otherness" of the character and their in turn alternate perception of the world around them, as if like an outsider.

Take for example the works of Virginia Woolf - the representations of the internal self and the external self or insider/outsider:

"Woolf repeatedly articulates her desire to be an outsider, yet she recognizes only later in her writing career that she always will also be an insider, and that her insider status results in complicity.."

http://scholarcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3611&context=etd

Clarissa Dalloway (Mrs Dalloway)

"... states that she is both insider and outsider, slicing like a knife through everything and yet standing outside the experience as an observer."

http://scholarcommons.usf.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=3611&context=etd

Katharine Hilberry in Alight and Day, one of Virginia Woolf's less known works, is the only daughter of parents who are securely ensconced in the literary establishment of London.

Her romantic mother does not believe in college education for girls, and she has to pursue her studies in mathematics and astronomy secretly at night. Neither of her parents look upon her as anything but a vessel of practical virtues and common sense, and they do not understand her wish to get away from the chaos of feeling at home to the world of order created by facts and figures.

Katharine’s interest in mathematics is established as her individualist reaction to the weight of social convention that she finds so oppressive. She is expected to pour tea and make polite conversation with visitors but (we are expected to believe) she has a private passion which provides a separate life outside this public realm, located in the abstract realm of numerical calculations. The problem is that this private passion is never dramatised or expressed in any way. Indeed, it is simply not mentioned again after its first appearance in the text...

So, not necessarily autistic but realising the pressure to fit in (be an "insider"), but also a reflection of being an "outsider). Maybe Virginia Woolf own outsider self as a feminist fits quite neatly on such societal commentary. Certainly those fictional characters that are not aligned to the norm or expectation are attractive.