STOP THE EXTRADITION OF ASPERGERS SUFFERER, TALHA AHSAN

There was an Anonomous hacker who pleaded Asperger's - he went to prison.

There was that guy that left malicious posts on the facebook pages of dead kids who also pleaded Asperger's - he also went to prison.

Asperger's doesn't remove one's sense of right and wrong - it is not an excuse for doing wrong, and it's not a good reason for someone to stay out of prison.

(and neither is having a mental health condition)

Nothing here suggests to me that this person should get any leniency what-so-ever.

Though as has already been said, more information would be required before making that judgement call.

See, 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_McKinnon

 Gutheinz, who is also an American criminal defense attorney and former Member of the Texas Criminal Justice Advisory Committee on Offenders with Medical and Mental Impairments, said that he feared Gary McKinnon would not find justice in the USA, because "the American judicial system turns a blind eye towards the needs of the mentally ill".

Many issues are involved here, and I just want to raise some of them.

Firstly, just because you have Aspergers does not mean you have no understanding of right and wrong. Our moral sense is  usually fully intact and we know what is legal and illegal, and we normally have a social conscience, like most people do. However, some people with Aspergers break the law for various reasons. Sometimes, as is arguably the case with Gary Mckinnon, this is at least in part because of an obsession generated by the Aspergers and perhaps a partial loss of contact with reality, or problems with impulse control. But this is not always the case and having aspergers should never be seen as a blanket excuse, and people with AS who break the law should face due process like everyone else. But the Aspergers should nevertheless be taken into account, so that the punishment does not breach human rights by punishing the person any more than someone without AS who would not face the same challenges: reasonable adjustments should be made.  As for solitary confinement and detention without trial, I think this is a breach of civil liberties and should be outlawed. Personally, I do not think Gary should be extradited. I think he is a kind man, well-intentioned, not a threat to our security, but simply very misguided and  naive. He  needs help and support  - rehabilitation - and possibly a community sentence, but it should not  be superfluous. As for  this other guy, who is accused of recruiting terrorists, he is of course innocent until proven guilty. If he is guilty, then this is clearly a very serious crime that has the potential for loss of life. Unless he is mentally ill, his Aspergers cannot be an excuse.

It is not the crimes, it is a Human Right.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_3_of_the_European_Convention_on_Human_Rights

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_8_of_the_European_Convention_on_Human_Rights

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1201259/You-CAN-help-Gary-McKinnon-lawyers-tell-Home-Secretary-Alan-Johnson.html

UK is signed to the European Convention of Human Rights.

It is correct, assessment for AS is not good.

I know a person has had no support for aspergers but has severe AS assessed as an adult, he had a degree without support, very very intelligent, but cannot work due to social skills.

http://www.ihrc.org.uk/activities/campaigns/9558-free-talha-ahsan

There are lots of undiagnosed people with aspergers including people who have major problem and may not want to be diagnosed.

As he is 32 years old, in 1994, he would have been 14/15 years old. 1994 (or 1995) was the year when aspergers mainstream, the focus has been on little children, support and diagnosis has improved but it is still poor for adults.

Also bringing aspergers into this case may not be serving any advantage. Talha is a 33 year old School of Oriental and African Studies graduate if I understand this correctly. So his aspergers, then undiagnosed presumably, was able enough for him to get a degree.

The real issue lies in whether what he was doing was journalism or incitement to terrorism, and whether because the website operated via Connecticut USA for a short time, that is sufficient claim for extradition.

I do wonder if bringing aspergers into this is to Tahla's advantage or might undermine the broader case. Certainly Aspergers shouldn't be misrepresented to make a point. The authorities may not be too good at assessing aspergers going by the DLA reforms, but the claims being made are clearly wrong.

I never said aspergers was a mental health conditions but it will become much more severe in a solitary confinement.

Aspergers causes mental health problems which will definitely become severe in solitary confinement, far away from his family.

The main issue is not his crimes, but the conditiobns he will be held in.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8090789.stm

"One of the problems with Asperger's is that you need to have your family and support network around you and Gary would be completely denied that."

People with aspergers have trouble communicating in subtle ways, people with aspergers have trouble relating to the world. If extradited , he will have to go trial, which may mean he will not be in a fit state.

See, http://freeahmed.com/the-case/prison-conditions/

• He gets one 15 minute unscheduled phone call a month

• He is allowed one hour of recreation but must get strip searched in order to utilize it (like many in his conditions, he chooses to forgo his recreational hour)

http://www.metro.co.uk/lifestyle/889554-gary-mulgrew-i-hope-my-book-will-help-me-find-my-missing-daughter

Gary Mulgrew the Natwest 3 wrote the article

I went through a humiliating strip search when I went to jail in the US – someone with Asperger’s syndrome would be really traumatised by it.

A person with aspergers has difficulty engaging in social interaction - can be alone in a crowded room. Solitary would be less of an ordeal for someone with aspergers.

In Gary Mackinnon's case he did something foolish which could partly be explained by aspergers, in that he may have lacked sufficient understanding of the implications of what he did. To be honest he propbably did the US a favour by demonstrating that the US computing advisers weren't as good as they supposed in creating a hacker proof system.

Can Talha Ahsan's alleged use of websites to recruit terrorists be similarly explained? If we had evidence this was due to his Aspergers perhaps a similar argument could be put forward. But just because he has aspergers is not a sufficient case for leniency if he is guilty if aspergers cannot be attributed as a causal factor.

Also it is not fair to others on the spectrum to make some of the inferences about it being a mental health condition or a disease, or claiming his aspergers will deteriorate. It promotes neither Talha's case nor the interests of people on the autistic spectrum to so misrepresent Aspergers as is conspicuously being done in this protest

He is joking, not serious (aspie solitary continously & no communicationb with the outside world), he would potentially never see the outside world, Remember pre-trial solitary confinement, then a trial. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Penitentiary,_Florence_ADX

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=qJZmsp3ZVG8C&pg=PA340&lpg=PA340&dq=asperger+prison+tony+attwood&source=bl&ots=lEpxiHsBrr&sig=LaAT-sMgXDFeukRtw142fhpkkRY&hl=en&sa=X&ei=_AuxT4-RHIqn8gOE7oGJCQ&ved=0CGQQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q&f=false

ALADDIN said:

If a person is placed in isolation, the social skills & communication skills will deteriorate, degrading.

Funny that given that Tony Attwood says in his Complete Guide book (and I paraphrase) that there's one known cure for Asperger's - leaving a person with Asperger's alone, in a room, with no contact with the outside world!

Now, I'm not saying that this person should, or indeed should not, be extradited.

However, I don't believe Asperger's is reason enough for not being imprisoned for crimes one has committed.

It is, in some cases, however, a reason for that person to be exhonerated.

It is not clear that this is the case here, however, as longman says, we need more, unbiased, information to go on.

rt.com/.../

Related to the Babar Ahmad case. Found information as a result of the Babar Ahmad case.

Aspergers and mental illness WILL DETERIORATE in the Super Max, no contact with the world, can only see the sky, cannot see the family.

Therapy with aspergers involves social skills & communication skills training with people. If a person is placed in isolation, the social skills & communication skills will deteriorate, degrading. As a result much more mental health problems.

well if he is found gulty with enough evdence then i say let me live his life in prison as he has given us as bad name but we need more infomation

The Major

I agree we need more information.  

Reading a few websites (difficult to find an impartial account) he was accused of running websites to recruit terrorists. It is alleged he has not been tried but has been held in Britain pending extradition to the USA.

He appears to have been diagnosed with Aspergers in 2009 while in prison. However some of the claims about Aspergers on support websites aren't flattering to people on the spectrum - claiming things that just aren't true. The main issue, not an unreasonable, is that he faces a long term in solitary in USA. But assertions that his Aspergers will deteriorate and that he has a mental illness need corroboration.

On the other side of the coin the fact that anyone, a British citizen or otherwise, should have been held for five years without trial, begs explanation.

Also people in ethnic and religious communities often by their own rules, but also possibly by neglect to address ethnic groups, do not seem to get as much recognition of disability. It is very complex.

But we need facts. It is a little worrying that Aspergers is being used for emotive leverage in ways not at all flattering to people on the spectrum or helpful to public perseption of autism.

what did he do and there was has sane at the time of what he did if he was not then the USA cant lock a way in insane man that would go angest human right

The Major