I like eating chicken (rant alert)

Without meaning to be rude, I and other vegans have heard and read arguments like some of those raised in replies below (eg about “humane” farming practices, “assurances” from “welfare” schemes, that humans today should be omnivorous because of how we evolved, risks of farmed animals becoming “extinct” if we don’t keep eating them, etc) many, many times before.

In some ways, they feel quite similar - to me - to stereotypical comments or views about autism. I hope everyone can appreciate why that can feel increasingly draining, after more than 25 years as a vegan! :)

I won’t address them directly, because these and similar topics are already covered in depth in many places online. For anyone who might be interested in learning more about veganism, there’s a wealth of resources across these and other websites:

• The Vegan Society - vegansociety.com
• PETA UK - peta.org.uk
• The Vegetarian Society - vegsoc.org
• Viva! - viva.org.uk
• Veganuary - veganuary.com

NB I haven’t included clickable links to any specific pages, because some of them contain images that people might find shocking (but perhaps also informative or enlightening).

I’ll just end with some vegan quotes, for general interest:

• “Everyone has to find what is right for them, and it is different for everyone. Eating for me is how you proclaim your beliefs three times a day. That is why all religions have rules about eating. Three times a day, I remind myself that I value life and do not want to cause pain to or kill other living beings. That is why I eat the way I do.” - Natalie Portman
• “I personally chose to go vegan because I educated myself on factory farming and cruelty to animals, and I suddenly realized that what was on my plate were living things, with feelings. And I just couldn’t disconnect myself from it any longer.” - Ellen DeGeneres
• “Animals are not products. Life doesn’t have a price.” - Anonymous
• “I hold that the more helpless a creature, the more entitled it is to protection by man from the cruelty of man” - Gandhi
• “Could you look an animal in the eyes and say to it, ‘My appetite is more important than your suffering’?” - Moby
• “We all love animals. Why do we call some ‘pets’ and others ‘dinner?’” - K.D. Lang
• “If slaughterhouses had glass walls, we’d all be vegetarian.” - Paul McCartney
• “The love for all living creatures is the most noble attribute of man.” - Charles Darwin

Veganism is based on two things, emotion and the insulation of modern urban Westerners from nature, the threat of poor nutrition, the land and daily interaction with non-pet animals. For any peasant society (outside of Jains and some Hindus) the idea of not eating meat, when available, would appear ludicrous. Would a vegan's care for animal life extend to not swatting a horsefly that was biting them? Or is it just extended to vertebrates and octopi, things that are emotionally relatable to, due to their behaviour and/or appearance? 

Animals raised for food should not be treated cruelly, not constrained so that they cannot express their normal behaviours - cattle should be able to graze, interact with others in a herd, chickens should be able to scratch and peck for food and be able to move about etc. They should not be unduly stressed by being transported unnecessarily or by inhumane killing methods. These should be an essential part of any animal husbandry farming.

Domestic animals usually have less stressful lives and deaths than their wild cousins, they are protected from disease, parasites and predation. Many predators are inefficient killers and their prey suffer much more protracted and painful deaths than happens in any abattoir - large herbivores falling prey to wolves, hyenas and Cape hunting dogs are usually partially eaten before death from blood loss occurs. In the face of the universal suffering of animals throughout evolutionary history not eating meat for emotional reasons seems rather pointless.

BTW Charles Darwin had dogs, to which he was attached, but he also raised animals such as domestic 'fancy' pigeons, which were killed and he then dissected. He was investigating how human selection for traits in animals led to changes in their appearance and physical anatomy.

Martin said:

Animals raised for food should not be treated cruelly, not constrained so that they cannot express their normal behaviours - cattle should be able to graze, interact with others in a herd, chickens should be able to scratch and peck for food and be able to move about etc. They should not be unduly stressed by being transported unnecessarily or by inhumane killing methods. These should be an essential part of any animal husbandry farming.

But they aren't so avoiding meat and animal products is the way to go if you want to avoid the products of animal suffering.

It's not as simple as looking at labels on meat and dairy products. 

It involves all the products that include these ingredients including ready meals and eating out, including products from animals farmed abroad with very few safeguards for them.

Martin said:

Veganism is based on two things, emotion and the insulation of modern urban Westerners from nature, the threat of poor nutrition, the land and daily interaction with non-pet animals.

It's actually far more nuanced than you state here (and more cerebral).

Simply killing is an awful thing - taking a life unnecessarily.

Martin said:

Would a vegan's care for animal life extend to not swatting a horsefly that was biting them?

Very often yes.

I'm not vegan but I do all I can never to kill anything, especially insects, and not to eat anything someone else has killed (I fail in this regard very occasionally).

I believe in the sanctity of life.

Martin said:

Animals raised for food should not be treated cruelly, not constrained so that they cannot express their normal behaviours - cattle should be able to graze, interact with others in a herd, chickens should be able to scratch and peck for food and be able to move about etc. They should not be unduly stressed by being transported unnecessarily or by inhumane killing methods. These should be an essential part of any animal husbandry farming.

But they aren't so avoiding meat and animal products is the way to go if you want to avoid the products of animal suffering.

It's not as simple as looking at labels on meat and dairy products. 

It involves all the products that include these ingredients including ready meals and eating out, including products from animals farmed abroad with very few safeguards for them.

Martin said:

Veganism is based on two things, emotion and the insulation of modern urban Westerners from nature, the threat of poor nutrition, the land and daily interaction with non-pet animals.

It's actually far more nuanced than you state here (and more cerebral).

Simply killing is an awful thing - taking a life unnecessarily.

Martin said:

Would a vegan's care for animal life extend to not swatting a horsefly that was biting them?

Very often yes.

I'm not vegan but I do all I can never to kill anything, especially insects, and not to eat anything someone else has killed (I fail in this regard very occasionally).

I believe in the sanctity of life.

Yes, we don’t have Waitrose here and M&S no longer stocks RSPCA milk. 

B said:

I found in the end that I couldn't read the literature but just gave it out

I read some literature a while back about milk production which was difficult reading. There is a farm quite near to where I live and I can tell when calves are removed from their mothers by the  noise. 

ArchaeC said:

Intensive farming practices can be particularly stressful for animals. Cattle bred for high yield meat and milk production compromises their physical health and they are often spend long periods without space to exhibit natural behaviours. Not a happy life.

I used to collect for a charity which dealt with animal cruelty.

I learnt quite a lot and I think some people would be particularly put off products, especially milk, if they knew the suffering of the intensively farmed dairy cows.

I found in the end that I couldn't read the literature but just gave it out.

ArchaeC said:

It’s not easy to find out where animal products have come from, especially supermarket animal products.

No. That's why I recommended Waitrose and M&S due to their overarching policies as detailed by Compassion in World Farming (although I believe that you said it's not the same in Northern Ireland?), sadly.

B said:

But they aren't so avoiding meat and animal products is the way to go if you want to avoid the products of animal suffering

It’s not easy to find out where animal products have come from, especially supermarket animal products.

Intensive farming practices can be particularly stressful for animals. Cattle bred for high yield meat and milk production compromises their physical health and they often spend long periods without space to exhibit natural behaviours. Not a happy life.

All animals should have the opportunity to exhibit natural behaviours.