Wish me luck for thursday

I am hoping you are out of the dentist’s chair and home by now.

Is the dentist ok after your visit? 

I'm fine apart from the £190 bill for an extraction, it would cost £620 for a root filling!

I think these dentists should be investigated by the government for the amount they charge, there's no NHS dentists round here anymore and I think the reason I'm going to lose another tooth is because the NHS one didn't drill it out properly the first time, but filled on top of the damage, all that lot really wanted was for you to have implants and take out a second mortgage to pay for it. Still it's got to be done and she was very very good and thorough, said that most of her nervous patients are so because of bad experiences with other dentists. It was nice to be believed rather than dismissed.

Happy that you are OK but ouch! £190. 

It seems crazy that NHS dentistry is a thing of the past in most places. My dentist went fully private a few years ago. She said that she didn’t want to do NHS dentistry any more because she wasn’t paid reimbursed adequately for each procedure undertaken. I think that has contributed to the pricing monopoly in dental practices owned by large corporations, and the people at the top have money flowing in without lifting a finger. 

How can it be fair that some people wouldn't have the choice between a root filling and an extraction based on their needs and best clinical practice, because they can’t afford £620 for a root filling? 

Stuart333 said:

Roughly 2/3rds private and 1/3rd NHS.

From https://dentistry.co.uk/2024/03/13/only-15-dental-practices-are-fully-nhs-data-shows/ 

Only 15% are fully NHS, with no private care, and a further 27% said they are predominantly NHS (over 75% of their time).

The number looks to be decreasing with time too so I wonder at what point the NHS will pull the plug on it:

From https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/are-nhs-dentists-doing-less-nhs-work 

That trend shows it going to zero in about 15-20 years but I doubt this will happen quite so simply.

Stuart333 said:

Roughly 2/3rds private and 1/3rd NHS.

From https://dentistry.co.uk/2024/03/13/only-15-dental-practices-are-fully-nhs-data-shows/ 

Only 15% are fully NHS, with no private care, and a further 27% said they are predominantly NHS (over 75% of their time).

The number looks to be decreasing with time too so I wonder at what point the NHS will pull the plug on it:

From https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/are-nhs-dentists-doing-less-nhs-work 

That trend shows it going to zero in about 15-20 years but I doubt this will happen quite so simply.

Stuart333 said:

Roughly 2/3rds private and 1/3rd NHS.

From https://dentistry.co.uk/2024/03/13/only-15-dental-practices-are-fully-nhs-data-shows/ 

Only 15% are fully NHS, with no private care, and a further 27% said they are predominantly NHS (over 75% of their time).

The number looks to be decreasing with time too so I wonder at what point the NHS will pull the plug on it:

From https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/are-nhs-dentists-doing-less-nhs-work 

That trend shows it going to zero in about 15-20 years but I doubt this will happen quite so simply.

That was how it was in 1948. Within 3 years they started charging (1951) to control spiralling costs. Has become less and less free ever since.

I said the same thing - all I want for Christmas is for this tooth problem I’m having to be fully resolved and to not have any more pain or trouble with it. I’ve lost all interest in presents at this point anyway as this continued problem has taken the joy out of things for me right now. 

Totally agree. Dentistry that is medically necessary should be like all other healthcare: free at the point of access. It’s not like people want to go to the dentist - no one would be taking advantage and having loads of free dentistry! 

The dentistry market is about £12bn per year in the UK.

Roughly 2/3rds private and 1/3rd NHS.

Around 60% of practices are independent and not a chain. But private equity continues to invest. This is not likely to make anything cheaper.

People underestimate the cost of 'Free'.

Taxes, and increased prices, are used to fund the goodies we receive. Fiat currency turns money into a debt; that must be repaid.

TheCatWoman said:

I've heard that too that dentists can't afford to do NHS work

It is quite understandable when you look at what is involved in being a dentist.

Training to do the job takes 7 years (5 years at uni and 2 in postgrad work) to be qualified as even a starting dentist. That is a hell of a lot of time and effort not to mention probably around £100k +in student debt

The NHS charge £60 for a filling (in Wales) for up to an hours work. 

You have the overheads of the practice costs, rent, all the equipment to buy and maintain, all the materials and wear & tear plus the cost for cleaning all the equipment in the autoclave after.

Add insurance (very high), all the tax they have to pay (40% plus NI) and all the staff they need (receptionist, web site maintenance, cleaner etc).

At the end of the day I doubt they make £20 in their pocket for the hour it takes to do a filling. I wouldn't get out of bed for that after 7 years of work to get there, especially when they can make so much more doing the work at market rate.

It is simple economics.

Exactly, £620 is a hell of a lot of money,£190 is a lot too, part of it is going to be my xmas present, I guess not having a festering abess is a good present, at least it should last all year and hopefully more.

I've heard that too that dentists can't afford to do NHS work, some will still do children, but they're getting fewer and when you do find an NHS practice you've not idea of how good they'll be and if they will offer the full range of treatments, many don't, anything they can make money from they will only do privately.

Exactly, £620 is a hell of a lot of money,£190 is a lot too, part of it is going to be my xmas present, I guess not having a festering abess is a good present, at least it should last all year and hopefully more.

I've heard that too that dentists can't afford to do NHS work, some will still do children, but they're getting fewer and when you do find an NHS practice you've not idea of how good they'll be and if they will offer the full range of treatments, many don't, anything they can make money from they will only do privately.

Stuart333 said:

Roughly 2/3rds private and 1/3rd NHS.

From https://dentistry.co.uk/2024/03/13/only-15-dental-practices-are-fully-nhs-data-shows/ 

Only 15% are fully NHS, with no private care, and a further 27% said they are predominantly NHS (over 75% of their time).

The number looks to be decreasing with time too so I wonder at what point the NHS will pull the plug on it:

From https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/are-nhs-dentists-doing-less-nhs-work 

That trend shows it going to zero in about 15-20 years but I doubt this will happen quite so simply.

Stuart333 said:

Roughly 2/3rds private and 1/3rd NHS.

From https://dentistry.co.uk/2024/03/13/only-15-dental-practices-are-fully-nhs-data-shows/ 

Only 15% are fully NHS, with no private care, and a further 27% said they are predominantly NHS (over 75% of their time).

The number looks to be decreasing with time too so I wonder at what point the NHS will pull the plug on it:

From https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/are-nhs-dentists-doing-less-nhs-work 

That trend shows it going to zero in about 15-20 years but I doubt this will happen quite so simply.

Stuart333 said:

Roughly 2/3rds private and 1/3rd NHS.

From https://dentistry.co.uk/2024/03/13/only-15-dental-practices-are-fully-nhs-data-shows/ 

Only 15% are fully NHS, with no private care, and a further 27% said they are predominantly NHS (over 75% of their time).

The number looks to be decreasing with time too so I wonder at what point the NHS will pull the plug on it:

From https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/are-nhs-dentists-doing-less-nhs-work 

That trend shows it going to zero in about 15-20 years but I doubt this will happen quite so simply.

I said the same thing - all I want for Christmas is for this tooth problem I’m having to be fully resolved and to not have any more pain or trouble with it. I’ve lost all interest in presents at this point anyway as this continued problem has taken the joy out of things for me right now. 

The dentistry market is about £12bn per year in the UK.

Roughly 2/3rds private and 1/3rd NHS.

Around 60% of practices are independent and not a chain. But private equity continues to invest. This is not likely to make anything cheaper.

People underestimate the cost of 'Free'.

Taxes, and increased prices, are used to fund the goodies we receive. Fiat currency turns money into a debt; that must be repaid.

TheCatWoman said:

I've heard that too that dentists can't afford to do NHS work

It is quite understandable when you look at what is involved in being a dentist.

Training to do the job takes 7 years (5 years at uni and 2 in postgrad work) to be qualified as even a starting dentist. That is a hell of a lot of time and effort not to mention probably around £100k +in student debt

The NHS charge £60 for a filling (in Wales) for up to an hours work. 

You have the overheads of the practice costs, rent, all the equipment to buy and maintain, all the materials and wear & tear plus the cost for cleaning all the equipment in the autoclave after.

Add insurance (very high), all the tax they have to pay (40% plus NI) and all the staff they need (receptionist, web site maintenance, cleaner etc).

At the end of the day I doubt they make £20 in their pocket for the hour it takes to do a filling. I wouldn't get out of bed for that after 7 years of work to get there, especially when they can make so much more doing the work at market rate.

It is simple economics.