Panic attacks

Thank you for giving me the question Rjat 

I hope you enjoyed and are refreshed by your run and podcast :-)

In respect of things being a battle with oneself and struggling on through one's environment.  In part the tolerance for this is goal driven - I suspect that for most of us these are somewhat of a necessity. 

The necessity becomes a realisation that there is something about oneself and how one is behaving that becomes a goal to achieve.

In so far as we are somewhat reliant upon past experience to identify what that goal is we may chose to fixate on something previously found to have been functional.  However sometimes we need a change.

Since we both have breath and bodywork (and teaching :-) ) as vehicles to comprehend this I propose to do so in those terms.  I hope that is OK.

It is perhaps worth considering the phrase that you shared:

"pranayama and breathwork exercises. That is my way of deregulating and coming into the now (yoga is great aswell). I didn’t realise how much I relied on it until I had back to back classes and no time to get my self together."

When i read your post I initially misunderstood.

I thought you were referring to doing back to back yoga classes and this was stopping you from getting yourself together.

So I composed an answer about the goal of doing the classes to be getting oneself together.

That said, I think the principle is that you are finding it difficult as the world of your yoga classes and the world outside are not sufficiently unified.

The suggestion I have for you is that at present you consider the yoga as something like having learned through maths classes to check your change at the supermarket and put it in the right compartment of your wallet or purse.

Another way to do it is to do the adding up as you do your shopping or maybe even do the list and the budget before even setting out..  This gets us into the world of energy management "counting spoons" or whatever strategy floats ones boat.

Consider this - breathing strategies and the asanas you do in your class might just be "normal" breathing and postures albeit presented and embodied in a way that is somehow separate from the normal world.

Say writing on a whiteboard for example.  You start with standing, turn your body and transfer your weight towards the side with the lifted arm with the pen and... Maybe that's a "mini" warrior pose?  Hehe maybe that's why they say the pen is mightier than the sword?

Anyway, once the realisation is that one is living a mobile yoga all the time there is plenty of opportunity "inbetween" times when one normally considers it to be done to be doing it.

There is also implied a dependence on the classes and self medication which I recognise personally.

I have a joke on that topic: a shipwrecked mariner on a desert island discovers a genie in a lamp who offers 2 wishes.  The first is used for an ever-filling bottle of Guinness.  The genie ask what is the second wish and the answer comes that they would like another bottle like the first... :-)

From my "school" of same there are 2 paths to achievement of experience somewhat different to that which one has become normalised to.

The fire path and the water.

In respect of "suffering", by pushing on as you (and Hamlet) put it, this is the fire path.  It leads to such phrases as "the iron thinks itself needlessly tortured by the flame but the sword looks back and understands why" also perhaps to the concept of a phoenix arising from ashes.  These processes exist and can be effective for transitional purposes.  I acknowledge that in part they provide a sollice for putting up with suffering - trick is to appreciate that unless one is masochistic the goal is in itself not suffering!

The water path is to find a way of least resistance to achieve.  

Somewhere between these 2 is a state of mutually supporting interplay and balance.

From a personal perspective I took breath work and bodywork as a means of generating a body that would do my will and drove it somewhat like a robot "whole body mask" - whilst facilitating achievement of goals the goal of achieving "me" was absent.  I now consider this a stage to pass through.  Like many other people post diagnosis I found myself not knowing who I was.

There is a sense that physically and mentally one has accumulated experiences that "shape" one such that one can no longer be the "original" self.

In this context the goal of the breath and bodywork along with the psychological and emotional work is to "return" to that original self before all the functionally contingent repairs. adaptations and perhaps "hiding away" of problems occurred.

I suggest that this is the same as "unmasking" post diagnosis.

The tricky but potentially most useful part is perhaps the cognitive and emotional unmasking of oneself.

When one does so there is a considerable resource of energy and vitality that may be employed to live in a more healthy fashion.

Hehe, at least that's the guff I've swallowed on the topic and now regurgitate!

Anyway as both the yoga and the qi gong/chi kung/ chi gong (hehe however it is spelled) have roots in the same source...   a new perspective on life via the subtle principles of Ayurveda or Taoism can be understood and embodied through the most direct and accessible medium — the work with the human body itself.

If I might go back to the initial insight I shared (as a teacher to a teacher let me remind you...). 

I would like to respond to your kind question with three for you to consider...

What are you learning from your breathing and bodywork, what use is it, how do you share this with other people?

Best Wishes

or should I say Namaste ;-)

./\. :-)

I know what you mean. Seeing other people maintaining active social lives, whilst I don’t really feel like I fit in majority of the time and feeling like you’re observing your own life drifting by..

I’ve been there with stress not allowing you to sleep! I’ve had a lot of nights walking around my flat at 3am worrying about the day ahead, unable to sleep. Ironically when the alarm goes off you feel like you could actually sleep!

It is comforting to know there are other people experiencing the same thing. Since getting the diagnosis I have realised that a lot of the people I connect with are probably autistic as well and they are mostly creative, intelligent people who are struggling on the most part. I am maybe delusional but I have started engaging with other like minded people close to me in the hope that if we support each other our chances of success/survival increase significantly. 

For me I think it’s the derealisation that intensifies the fear, I can be looking at others as they carry on their lives as normal while I’ve been sent to another dimension, just like a spirit in the afterlife watching the living and not being able to reconnect with the reality I see around me. The physical symptoms never concerned me it was always the psychological ones which made the biggest impact on my mental health. The first major panics I had stopped me sleeping, I would walk around in a daze in a constant state of fear and dread. 

Hi Stuart333 “ 

sorry to hear that you’ve gone through similar struggles. I can definitely empathise with the thought that’s it’s hard enough to look after myself let alone someone else.

I am recently married and it is very stressful and annoying at times. Before meeting my wife, my plan was to live alone and go on dates every now and again. However, met my wife (also neurodivergent) and I didn’t get any social fatigue around her and it made it possible to live together. 

I avoided any diagnosis or therapy for the same reason. I was conscious of stuff that’s happened in the past and didn’t want to put myself in a box but as you say, we are living in different times.

It looks like we got diagnosed at a similar time and I just wanted to say well done. As my mum says, it’s only a disadvantage if you choose to see it that way. As my therapist said when I got diagnosed- well done for surviving this far without any help! It can’t have been easy! Take confidence from that because most people don’t see or understand the struggle 

My solution to everything was to live on my own and do everything alone. Just eat, sleep, work with little energy for anything else, for 30 years. A somewhat extreme outcome.

All my adjustments were not conscious. I now realise there are many things I have done which were not really in my best interests, including financially.

It worked, in that I managed to keep going for 30 years, but it's not ideal. I should have failed, not pushed away my partner and got help, but I couldn't do that. Hyper independence.

I took one holiday every 3 years, although that slipped a bit and I left it 10 years till a few weeks ago. I tried not to ease up.

But the stress has had health impacts, although nothing visible. And then even this failed, you can only push so hard for so long.

Diagnosis has helped to me to stop pushing so hard and expecting so much. I don't need to do 3 people's jobs, take no leave and cover for everyone. I don't have to live in circumstances I wouldn't expect others to. I still find it hard to believe I am good enough.

I don't know what the answer is. I don't know how you live a normal life or have a partner. It's too much responsibility. It is hard enough looking after yourself.

thanjs Phased I really like the example you gave of the working window for stress and boredom. It’s a constant process of feeling overwhelmed or not challenged enough. I know it very well!

I was very happy for many years in a job that involved remote work with occasional travel. I was made redundant due to the sale of the company and decided to go into teaching. I think it was the reality of having no time to process my thoughts during the day.

You mentioned you do Qi Kung. I have a love for pranayama and breathwork exercises. That is my way of deregulating and coming into the now (yoga is great aswell). I didn’t realise how much I relied on it until I had back to back classes and no time to get my self together. That brought on panic attacks, leading to insomnia and rapidly declining mental health.

As someone who has potentially known you were autistic for longer than me. For me it is a relatively new realisation. Would you recommend accepting limitations and finding a balance in life or overcoming the limitations (social fatigue etc) and pushing on?

I’ve found that I do well in a lot of situations and it’s a battle with myself internally, more than an inability to perform tasks, if that makes sense?

I am trying to understand myself more and not ignoring these kind of things and self medicate! I want to be a better version of myself and contribute to society as much as I can! Thanks for the advice! I am going to the gym now to run on a treadmill and listen to a podcast! 

100%. I think that’s the worst part,I worry about situations incase it happens again but before all of this I would feel uncomfortable at times but I’d do stuff anyway and deal with it. I’m lucky to have good support around me though and a wife who understands but it’s really nice to connect with other people who have faced similar struggles

No worries, panic attacks are in a league of their own when it comes to mental health. They certainly did a number on me, wouldn’t wish them on my worst enemy. Only thing is they teach you to fear….fear which creates further problems with how you perceive situations current and future. 

Ironically I panicked briefly after this and I am just finished a diploma in web applications development despite not being particularly good with IT.

I’ve actually met with an occupational therapist before I started my current role but I found that none of the reasonable adjustment happened and when it comes to it employers will continue to push you to meet business needs. Maybe I need to get stronger at setting boundaries.

thanks for the advice! It’s always good to know other people have experienced similar

Thank you. It’s good advice and something I know works. I worked as a postman briefly after this happened and it got me moving in the right direction again doing 28000 steps a day and exhausted me to the point I slept well. However, it wasn’t a long term solution in terms of job but a lesson to be learnt there. Thank you for the advice, it’s greatly appreciated! 

Hi Rjat

Firstly I acknowledge that having been there it is difficult to imagine that one might get better - this tends to predispose one to further distress so if it helps to know from my perspective at least, been there done that, still do... BUT it can get better :-)

My way into resolving panic attacks was initially mainly through physical exercise.

Doing physical work whilst also listing to podcasts to keep my mind occupied...

Eventually I was/am able to tune into the physicality of it (if that makes sense?) and recognise what level of stress related "arousal" I am experiencing.

This physical "work around" for getting an appreciation of how close to the metaphorical edge my mental state was and what I was accustomed by experience to believe to be normal.

Eventually comes the realisation that one has a "working window" of stress tolerance that maybe somewhat narrower than one might prefer it to be and identify "triggers".  Above the window - hypervigilance and fight or flight.  , below the window - shutdown.

Adjusting stressors by "reasonable adjustments" of/from ones environment help to "stay in the window".  Great!  However I found that there is a risk of this of limiting ones experience such that life becomes very limited and one can become stigmatised socially.

What has taken me further in respect of "widening the window" (once some measure of getting the physical experience of "within the working window") there is then the greater possibility of doing the "psychological work" both cognitive and emotional - that I personally also experience as part of getting better.

Lots of different approaches and making it right for you is important.  Whichever a basic principle of learning how to do less to do more makes most logical sense to me.

These days for me Qi Kung (Chinese Yoga) mostly keeps me afloat, relatively sane and paddling in a direction of my own choice.  To be honest I have been studying and exploring this on and off for 40 years or so...  So if you give it a go don't expect instant miracles!

Best Wishes

Good morning from America, Rjat!

Oh yeah, I’ve been there. When I worked about a year and a half in IT (which was ridiculous because I know practically nothing about computers), I had panic attacks fairly often. Unfortunately my advice isn’t great because the fix for my problem was to take on a different role. I went from doing IT and being a professor to working as a custodian and being a professor.

 Autismman ‘s advice to get air more often is pretty spot on. Depending on your job that might require accommodations from your employer to give you more breaks, but if that could make you a better worker then some employers might be open to that.

It’s good to hear though that you are having both good and bad days. That’s better than only having bad days or having such bad days that the good days don’t even matter.

I’ve definitely had panic attacks yeah, they are traumatic on their own without anything else to come along and add salt into the wound. I would suggest long walks in the open air, just keep walking until you get bored or wish to head home, key is to occupy yourself with more than the same four walls because this can make you feel stale, groggy and without hope. At least if you are moving and the scenery keeps changing with any luck you’ll feel a bit more in control.