Single MMR vaccines

Not sure if you are still watching this discussion.

To answer your questions directly, please take a look at the following for information on vaccination questions and where to get the single vaccine administered in the UK.

www.informedparent.co.uk/

breakspearmedical.com/.../

My views on vaccinations are quite controvertial due to the data I have gathered and so would prefer not to express my personal opinion.

What everyone seems to be missing here is that regardless of whether Austim was caused by the MMR jab, the fact is this little boy had a fever afterwards.  The only thing I woud do is speak to my GP, reminding them of the fact your son had such a reaction.  I certainly wouldn't be using clinics that may not be ligit.

Your sons GP should be able to give you the answers you need and deserve as a concerned parent.  If they do not give you the information, ask to speak to someone else for a second or third if neccesary opinion.

Your post was from a while ago, so hopefully you have this sorted now.

For me, I don't believe my daughters autism was caused by the MMR, but the jury is still out for a definate yes / no.

My reasoning for my daughters case is becasue she has displayed many difficult signs as a baby, like not wanting her nappy changing (she would roll over and crawl as fast as she could (every time), screaming in the car seats and later not getting her in one.  However I have thought about other things like; we had a downs test and there were questions so we were given an extra scan which showed a bright spot on her heart (this just complicated things at the time, but isn't relevant here). Now they don't do this test.  She also had the cord wrapped round her neck during our super fast delivery and was in trouble during the last few minutes of being born.  I wonder if anyone has heard of anything like this being a factor?

CJ

The Wendy Chung video is informative and one of the main messages for me is that there is more that is unknown about autism than is known. Unfortunately, to me, she uses Wakefields fraud as evidence that the link between MMR and autism is false. This is bad logic. You can say something that might be true for fraudulent reasons but that does not mean that there is no link. What we know is that there is no statistically significant link between the two things. i.e. if there is a link then it is so small and rare that the population as a whole should still accept the risk because the impact of the MMR vaccines are proven to be real, significant and beneficial. What is beyond doubt is that the Wakefield scandal caused significant numbers of deaths due to people avoiding the proven benefits of the vaccine.

It is possible that taking a child to a GP surgery can lead to a fever due to the number of bugs in the air in a waiting room. Where else would you find a greater chance of picking up flu or any other bug? Children of that age have low levels of immunity as they have not had much exposure to bugs. You must not avoid social contact in response to this thought - everyone has to build up their immunity to these bugs sooner or later.

It is possible that children with latent autism may have their autism brought out by a fever. But practically all children have fevers so the autism is likely to come out sooner or later.

In this case, the child seems to have had a bad reaction to vaccination so it is reasonable to ask the GP if special precautions should be taken for the booster. The parents should be on their guard to try and ameliorate the fever by making sure that the child is kept as cool as possible and properly hydrated etc.

As I said before, my children have had these vaccines and I recommend that all other parents should see the certain benefits but be aware of the possible fevers etc by knowing what to do if a child develops a fever. NHS Choices has a page about this www.nhs.uk/.../Introduction.aspx - this talks about how common it is for children to have fevers and it also talks about the importance of keeping a child cool and the use of paracetamol as a drug to keep fever down.

So for the avoidance of doubt, there is an absence of evidence about the link between autism and MMR but there is no absence of evidence whatsoever about the benefits of the MMR vaccination, the overwhelming evidence is very much in favour of having this vaccine.

I appreciate all your comments, thank you.

I have been doing a lot of research and there is an increasing belief once more that the MMR may be a contributing factor to autism.  Many cases have been won, in the US in particular, where the MMR is held culpable.

As far as I am aware, autism is a genetic disorder. However, in many cases it requires a 'trigger'. MMR is considered by many to be a trigger, despite Wakefield's assertions being 'disproven'. I agree entirely with Recombinantsocks:   'absence of evidence is not evidence of absence'. I find it astounding that so many people maintain that there is no causal link to MMR when this cannot be and has not been proven. One wonders whether it is considered less critical to risk a few children becoming autistic than it is for there to be outbreaks of disease.

I have read of cases where autistic children are considered to have regressed after the second MMR vaccine and that is my fear. My child is making positive progress and I live in fear of that being reversed. However, the fear of him contracting MM or R also looms large. 

I am honestly at a loss. As far as I can tell the single mumps and rubella vaccines are no longer available. The measles vaccine may still be obtainable but are these unlicensed clinics safe? Who knows. As a parent all you want is to do the best for your children, but how on earth are you supposed to make this kind of decision?
 

Anonymous said:

The MMR hypothesis has been tested over and over again since the Wakefield scandal and nothing has come of it.

Yes, but "absence of evidence is not evidence of absence". The fact that Wakefield fabricated evidence does not necessarily mean that he was completely wrong it just means that he was a bad scientist. Until the OP can find an actual certain cause for this child's autism then all we know is that we don't know how it was caused. Identifying autistic traits within the family might help an understanding of how this case has come about.

I agree with what recombant says, and it's also true that the Wakefield was very badly handled (on all sides of the argument) and such fueled mistrust and conspiracy theories.

If I had a child whose autism manifested itself around the same time or shortly after the vaccination I would be suspicious, of course I would. But there would have to come a point where I would have to stop looking for someone or something to 'blame' for it.

The MMR hypothesis has been tested over and over again since the Wakefield scandal and nothing has come of it.

Many of us on this forum are autistic so please try to see past our apparently blunt way of communicating and see that we are trying to assist, not attack. Personally I don't do subtle - I would not know how to.

Firstly, I am sorry to hear that your child was affected by the vaccine. The NHS Choices page has some information about rare vaccine side effects and these include fevers. It seems that all of these incidents should be reported on the Yellow Card scheme. ( www.nhs.uk/.../reporting-side-effects.aspx )

As AlienorMary says, autism is commonly an inherited condition. If you believe that the vaccine caused the autism then may I ask if you have eliminated inherited autism from your investigations? There is a simple test at aspergerstest.net/.../ that is regularly used by forum members to identify familial or individual's autism.

One of the possible mechanisms is that a fever, from whatever cause, could bring an underlying autism predisposition into play. It could be that any childhood fever or other allergic/intolerance reaction could have this effect and since practically all children get fevers at some point the autism would have become apparent sooner or later.

One of the factors in the combined MMR vaccine is that the child gets multiple exposures at the same time rather than three separate exposures. It is possible that the overall risk of the combined single shot is greater than a single vaccine but less than three separate vaccinations. It is possible that the scientists view is that this is a net benefit and that, overall, the health benefits are positive and that they have not found any detectable increase in autism when comparing the combined vaccination with the comparative group that received three separate vaccinations.

I am writing as a late diagnosed autistic parent with autism whose children received the mmr vaccine. Their autistic tendencies are no greater than mine and I am comfortable that my autism can be traced back through my father's family's known eccentricities.

It would help if you could describe, with a little more detail, the degree of autism in your child and their behaviour before and after the vaccination.

I don't think single vaccines are available in the UK as the licence was revoked after the potential link between autism and MMR was made in the 90s. I'm not sure whether the licence has been reinstated but I do think more parents would consider vaccinating if single vaccines were still an option, especially those who already had a bad reaction.  The author of the original (gastrointestinal) case study recommended single vaccinations for worried parents while more research was done.  Instead, the decision-makers took it off the UK market, tried to discredit the study and lost the trust of many parents in the process.  

Apparently, its ok to believe autistic people can be more sensitive to any food or medication, but never to a vaccine. I can't understand that.  If your child had a bad reaction I guess you will have to live with people reacting badly to your view for now, do more research and make an informed decision on what to do next. 

Personally, I think most autism diagnoses are genetic in origin, but I also believe we can be more susceptible to side effects of all medications, including vaccines.  I think this environmental sensitivity is part of the reason we have so many comorbid health conditions today. The autism itself isnt a problem but being in pain/discomfort because of an uninvestigated health condition or allergic reaction is. I think we should be trying to find better ways to avoid and treat vaccine side effects, (eg. Universal pre-vax screening for allergies to the vaccine ingredients, like peanut and egg), rather than blindly denying they exist.

I also think parents would be more likely to vaccinate if they werent going to be constantly persecuted and patronised by everyone around them and denied medical help if their child IS the one harmed by the known, admitted and documented side effect risks.  The violent reactions people get for sharing their story are unnerving. Even since the CDC whistleblower confirmed the cover-up, nobody is allowed to discuss the issue.

My child is autistic.

Sorry, I thought that was clear given that I'm posting on the NAS site.

It astounds me that people are happy to assert with certainty that there is no causal link between the MMR and autism. It is fundamentally impossible to rule it out with absolute certainty. 

It is for this reason I am seeking information on alternatives and hope that someone will be able to respond to what I'm actually asking instead of trying to force their views on me. 

Ok. Your child has a reaction to the MMR vaccine. High temperature etc.

Since you have posted on an autism community people assumed that you meant autism was the bad reaction. That will be why people have been pointing out that the link to autism does not exist and the few cases of symptoms correlating to the onset of autism is pure, but very unfortunate, coincidence. This has been shown to be the case in study after study.

I appreciate your comments and your positions. 

However, my position as a parent is in absolute opposition to this. When it comes to the welfare of my child, I am not prepared to follow the 'positions' of organisations just because that is a policy set by the government or a decision made at an internal meeting.

My child had over 40 degree fever for 5 days after the first injection. And up to that point there had been no issues. My 'position' as a parent is to minimise any risk there may be for my child and, unfortunately, given my experience, the risk in this case cannot be entirely precluded.

What is ludicrous here is the response of the government and certain organisations to this issue. The national aim is to eradicate disease. I wish to have my child vaccinated against these diseases. In this respect, I am complying with government guidelines. The only thing I am asking is to be able to have these vaccinations administered individually.

What doesn't seem to be clear to the governing authorities, is that if this is not possible, then the alternative is not to administer the vaccines at all. Surely, this is not in the interest of the government. Nor is it in the interest of my child, but that appears to be the lesser of two evils.

Should anyone have any more helpful contributions, they would be very much appreciated.

Hi Salll

You might want to read about our position on vaccines. 

Hopefully it will allay your fears. There is sadly still a lot of mis information still around.

www.autism.org.uk/.../mmr-vaccine.aspx

Best Regards

NAS Bob - Mod

May I ask, what kind of 'bad reaction' your child had?

Because there has been no, absolutely no link found between vacinations and autisticspectrum disorder. One study whose methadology owed more to torture than science that got a lot of publicity, and whose utter complete and total debunking was in turn soundly ignored by the media.

What does your GP think is best? the advantage of the combination jab is that protection for several deseases hits all at once. With no gaps.

Individual... well you don't get that.