Point scoring

Thanks Longman, i am going to see what the peadarician says when we got within the next 2 weeks, i did notice on the Cahms letter it was forwarded to a peadatrician that spacilises in autism, so perhaps i may hear from him?

GP should refer him for an ASD assessment. OK that's my understanding, but that'll ensure if there's a difference of opinion there'll be a quick response.

I thought the Autism Act required GPs to facilitate diagnoses - but it doesn't seem to be panning out that way.

One way is to identify your local diagnoses centre (probably attached to the main NHS Trust Hospital) and ask them what you should do. It may be they can ease the process through the right channels.

Is there a parents' group in your area, or a NAS local group? Even if there isn't one locally, find out from the red map on the Home and Community pages on the NAS site the nearest such group, because they may know the best solution in your area, even if you are too far away to directly benefit from their support.

Is there a university near you with a special education needs development department? There may be an autism education staff member. While they may not normally advise the public they might be disposed to help someone encountering difficulties, because such information may point them to a need for research.

Also ask NAS helpline

I find it all highly confusing, Cahms say discharged as its not a mental health issues because he keeps threatening to kill himself then discharge with the he needs an Asd assessemnt, i talk to school who say go to the Gp and they will sort out an Asd assesment, so i go to Gp whos says school should sort out an Asd assesment, so what the heck do we do?

Thanks you, we hve the peadatrician in the next week or so, because of all the lack of info from school thats whats been holding us back, now however i have the report from Ot basically saying he has or shows sensory proccessing disorder and the report from Cahms saying he needs an assessment and school should have phoned up by then to give them more informatiion.

I'm intrigued by the "not scored enough points" bit. It is true that if you go through the AQ test you need to score enough points to be an indication of a diagnosis, but the test is only a pointer. It is based on the Triad of Impairments and is a way of toting up a number of characteristics that point to autism. By itself this just isn't enough. As your son is a child, presumably, the AQ test wouldn't have been appropriate.

Otherwise the remark about "not scored enough points" suggests the paediatrician has certain notions about indications of autism, perhaps a tick box tool they don't properly understand. It really is worrying how many professionals out there are working with people potentially or actually on the spectrum, who are neither adequately trained or adequately informed.

Some "professionals" will look for things like "gaze", or the ability to do simple puzzles. Some children on the spectrum will have difficulty making eye contact and looking down all the time - others will manage. Some of the puzzles really are not up to the task.

Others will make ridiculous assumptions about whether a child seems OK with other kids (as if they can see what happens out of sight of adults), or is able to do school work, or has normal hobbies. You do really encounter some appalling ignorance of what is evidence for autistic spectrum. Hunches are simply not good enough.

I think you need to challenge the paed' to explain the basis for this assertion. They need to be able to demonstrate to you where your child meets or doesn't meet criteria.

The triad of impairments can be found on the NAS website under "About autism". However the triad is a diagnostic tool and excludes things that can be confused with other factors. The NAS 'about autism' pages explain other things like sensory sensitivity. Read through these pages, get yourself better informed, and then you will know whether the paediatrician knows what he/she is talking about.

Good luck

Then you need to understand the paediatrician's understanding of AS, and how they arrived at 'not enough points'.

Given that CAMHS say he should be assessed, you need to be seeing your GP and pressing for a referal.

I know of no school that offers ASD assessment, although your GP might be saying that if school make the request for assessment, it will happen sooner. However, because they see your child in a 'social setting', often teachers have valuable observations to make.

Classic codger ive never filled in any questionaires xxx

Thanks Atypical i will have a gander xx

There's a book might be of some use to you:

'I Think I Might Be Autistic' by Cynthia Kim.

It's American and aimed at adults, so it's not all relevant.  However it does contain the DSM-5 criteria (the new ones without Aspergers...) and a long list of questions looking at the ways they might apply to a person (in chapter 2)

If he has a lot autistic traits, but doesn't quite fit it you might want to look at some of the related/overlapping diagnosisis such as ADHD or dyspraxia.

I'm sorry too! I did a first post, and it isn't here. I must have pressed the wrong button.

What I thought I'd told you was about 'points'. I don't know the context that the word was used in, so there are a couple of ways to look at it.

Diagnosis is by assessment with a trained professional during a personal 'interview'.

There are questionaires that are used, they provide some indication that an asessment is appropriate, and some information to the assessor. Each of these questionaires has a 'points' score because it's the first indicator of a possible condition. You may find the AQ test is the first of these, and there is plenty of information about it.

This sounds like the 'points' that the paediatrician is talking about, but your son must have filled in the questionaire (or did you do a Parental one?) for the points to be evaluated. You can find a picture of one online to see if you recognise it. Other than that, I have no idea how the paediatrician arrived at a 'points' score - you must ask, your GP should know as a report must have been sent.

The other kind of 'points' are the Triad of Impairments. This is currently how ASD is assessed. Apparently, it's about which points within each group of the Triad a person has, these are the 'traits' that we talk about. I'm afraid I don't understand it better than that, but someone will and hopefuly they'll be along to tell you.

Your GP is charged with looking out for indicators, they are required to be aware of them and be sure they understand the services that they need to offer. I think that often, there is marked difference between the 'requirement' and the actual delivery.

It is always possible for a child to indicate ASD by certain behaviours, but not actually be diagnosed as AS because they have a related condition. The area of diagnosis is a far from finished science, development and discussion are continuous and changing. I think you need to understand your GP, and your GP needs to show they understand your concerns, so that you can work together properly to help your son.

Is that any better?

Sorry i am not very good at explaining things.

Hi thanks for that, what i am looking for is, i know the criteria has changed for diagnosing children with Asd and that there i no longer an apsbergers diagnoses and what i really wanted to know what is the diagnostic criteria now.

Also this might help?:-

www.rcgp.org.uk/.../RCGP-Making-the-most-of-a-visit-to-your-GP-March-15.ashx