suicide risk and people at the abler end of the autistic spectrum

Hello all. I'm finding this thread a little confused, considering how important this subject is. Please allow me this:-

Firstly, may I explain that, without going into a long description of the why's and wherefores, I have managed to have some semblance of a career in Social Housing. It sounds odd, even to me, that an Aspie could do this at all, but please trust that I found a way. There are two aspects to this that you may find helpful.

1. You all know about workplace and relationship problems - I had them all.

2. I had a huge number of people to watch.

I might in future tell you about some of the fascinating people I've met who were living in Social Housing, from war heroes to murderous thugs, you'll hopefully be astonished. Mainly I hope I can astonish you by destroying some of the public misconceptions about what Social Housing is, and who needs it. If you can think of a 'type' of person, I can tell you a story about one in housing I have managed.

Now here's why this last point is relevant. One 'type' I've seen is the 'typical (i.e uninformed but propagandised public conception of) single parent. I understand that people, myself included, think the ability to breed makes them 'parents'. If you don't know what the difference is, stop reading this. One thing I observed was that a small proportion of them are lazy and indolent.

When ADHD became 'popular' in the way that we're discussing here, I saw what an 'easy' excuse it was for those same people to adopt, as it allowed them to ignore the paucity of their parenting skills, or more precisely, the consequences of their parenting skills as exhibited by their children. If you are a single parent, then you know the impossibility of fulfilling both parenting roles, but it doesn't stop you trying. These are people who don't know how to try, and it extends to most aspects of their lives.

I've attended what are called 'case conferences'. If you don't know, these are meetings, usually called by Social Services as a part of their involvement with a particular person or family, to bring together the people who are involved with that family (housing professionals, doctors, health visitors, CPNs, teachers etc) where their family 'problems' are discussed. Unskilled parenting was often identified as a contributing factor, not as a 'blame' thing. It was more about recognising that the 'style' of parenting we apply is learned from our parents. We are, and do, that which we know.

It may seem obvious, but it still helps to remind ourselves, that a truism for everyone, always, is that we can only apply what we've learned. By definition then, we cannot do those things that we have not learned to do. Parenting skills are no more or less learned than any other skill.

In its' time, ADHD became a popular excuse for some. I noted that these people often thought that they were being deliberately mistreated in not getting the diagnoses that they wanted, rather than accepting that they were wrong in the first place. I can guarantee that the same is now being done with ASD. In both cases, it is attempted by people who have only the vaguest grasp of the condition they're claiming. Thus, when their child 'misbehaves', they are both unwilling and unable to look at themselves first.

As far as professionals are concerned, these people not only exist, but also make it more difficult to separate out the genuine cases. This happens, I've been there. I therefore have to take issue with Coogybear and support Marjorie's view. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I now have to support Coogybear's other, more relevant point. Yes, the masking tactics we have to adopt do indeed sometimes drive us so far inside ourselves that we plummet to a depth where self destruction becomes attractive and desirable. This happens, I've been there. I can look back now and say that I'm glad it never worked, but I still sometimes have the minute by minute intense struggle not to self destruct.

So, I have to answer Longman's starter question with a yes. I think that there is a much increased risk of suicide, for men at least, by the very nature of the conditions that we live with. I'd like to note, here, that men are statisicaly shown to be far more likely than women to commit suicide anyway. I have no information as to whether the methods chosen by women are more likely to be attributed to other causes because of the way that they do it. By definition, we cannot know this. Ladies, do you have a view?

I'm currently discussing with belles12345 the diificulties of diagnosing girls. I've read in Tony Attwood that girls, because of their nature, find it easier to 'camouflage' their behaviour than boys, and that this makes girls so much more difficult to detect.

It therefore follows that it would be less likely (but NOT unlikely) for girls to suffer the same intensity of internal conflict that boys do when we try to 'hide' ourselves. It might even be the same for girls, except that something about them deals with it in better ways. This is what we need to keep talking about. I suggest that suicide rates support this view, but Longman asks the question of this assumption, and I agree. We lack properly widened out and fully researched information on the subject, and no-one seems to be taking it on.

Oh, and Coogybear, please may I say this? I too am late diagnosed. Like you, I've had a 'career' where just keeping myself 'hidden' has been exhausting, I certainly had to take frequent 'sick' breaks, some of them extending for months at a time, just to get my coping head back following a sort of 'meltdown majoris'. What dragged me along and back up was being the single working parent of three children whose needs kept me alive. Without them, I would not be here, I know this for a fact. I am sorry about your brother not making it back out of the bottomless pit, I feel for you.

Sometimes I just wish that the magic 'put everything all right' fairy would pop up and do her thing.

Hello all. I'm finding this thread a little confused, considering how important this subject is. Please allow me this:-

Firstly, may I explain that, without going into a long description of the why's and wherefores, I have managed to have some semblance of a career in Social Housing. It sounds odd, even to me, that an Aspie could do this at all, but please trust that I found a way. There are two aspects to this that you may find helpful.

1. You all know about workplace and relationship problems - I had them all.

2. I had a huge number of people to watch.

I might in future tell you about some of the fascinating people I've met who were living in Social Housing, from war heroes to murderous thugs, you'll hopefully be astonished. Mainly I hope I can astonish you by destroying some of the public misconceptions about what Social Housing is, and who needs it. If you can think of a 'type' of person, I can tell you a story about one in housing I have managed.

Now here's why this last point is relevant. One 'type' I've seen is the 'typical (i.e uninformed but propagandised public conception of) single parent. I understand that people, myself included, think the ability to breed makes them 'parents'. If you don't know what the difference is, stop reading this. One thing I observed was that a small proportion of them are lazy and indolent.

When ADHD became 'popular' in the way that we're discussing here, I saw what an 'easy' excuse it was for those same people to adopt, as it allowed them to ignore the paucity of their parenting skills, or more precisely, the consequences of their parenting skills as exhibited by their children. If you are a single parent, then you know the impossibility of fulfilling both parenting roles, but it doesn't stop you trying. These are people who don't know how to try, and it extends to most aspects of their lives.

I've attended what are called 'case conferences'. If you don't know, these are meetings, usually called by Social Services as a part of their involvement with a particular person or family, to bring together the people who are involved with that family (housing professionals, doctors, health visitors, CPNs, teachers etc) where their family 'problems' are discussed. Unskilled parenting was often identified as a contributing factor, not as a 'blame' thing. It was more about recognising that the 'style' of parenting we apply is learned from our parents. We are, and do, that which we know.

It may seem obvious, but it still helps to remind ourselves, that a truism for everyone, always, is that we can only apply what we've learned. By definition then, we cannot do those things that we have not learned to do. Parenting skills are no more or less learned than any other skill.

In its' time, ADHD became a popular excuse for some. I noted that these people often thought that they were being deliberately mistreated in not getting the diagnoses that they wanted, rather than accepting that they were wrong in the first place. I can guarantee that the same is now being done with ASD. In both cases, it is attempted by people who have only the vaguest grasp of the condition they're claiming. Thus, when their child 'misbehaves', they are both unwilling and unable to look at themselves first.

As far as professionals are concerned, these people not only exist, but also make it more difficult to separate out the genuine cases. This happens, I've been there. I therefore have to take issue with Coogybear and support Marjorie's view. Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

I now have to support Coogybear's other, more relevant point. Yes, the masking tactics we have to adopt do indeed sometimes drive us so far inside ourselves that we plummet to a depth where self destruction becomes attractive and desirable. This happens, I've been there. I can look back now and say that I'm glad it never worked, but I still sometimes have the minute by minute intense struggle not to self destruct.

So, I have to answer Longman's starter question with a yes. I think that there is a much increased risk of suicide, for men at least, by the very nature of the conditions that we live with. I'd like to note, here, that men are statisicaly shown to be far more likely than women to commit suicide anyway. I have no information as to whether the methods chosen by women are more likely to be attributed to other causes because of the way that they do it. By definition, we cannot know this. Ladies, do you have a view?

I'm currently discussing with belles12345 the diificulties of diagnosing girls. I've read in Tony Attwood that girls, because of their nature, find it easier to 'camouflage' their behaviour than boys, and that this makes girls so much more difficult to detect.

It therefore follows that it would be less likely (but NOT unlikely) for girls to suffer the same intensity of internal conflict that boys do when we try to 'hide' ourselves. It might even be the same for girls, except that something about them deals with it in better ways. This is what we need to keep talking about. I suggest that suicide rates support this view, but Longman asks the question of this assumption, and I agree. We lack properly widened out and fully researched information on the subject, and no-one seems to be taking it on.

Oh, and Coogybear, please may I say this? I too am late diagnosed. Like you, I've had a 'career' where just keeping myself 'hidden' has been exhausting, I certainly had to take frequent 'sick' breaks, some of them extending for months at a time, just to get my coping head back following a sort of 'meltdown majoris'. What dragged me along and back up was being the single working parent of three children whose needs kept me alive. Without them, I would not be here, I know this for a fact. I am sorry about your brother not making it back out of the bottomless pit, I feel for you.

Sometimes I just wish that the magic 'put everything all right' fairy would pop up and do her thing.