New Statutory body as an alternative to the NHS for mental health and hidden disability

While relatively minor issues can be figured out, the reality at the end of the day is that the current crisis situation is totally unsustainable and further emphasises the need to “take the bull by the horns” in implementing innovative, fundamental, far-reaching and groundbreaking legislative changes where, yes, a revolution is exactly what is absolutely required, much needed and long overdue, where difficult decisions must be made, even if unpopular to some, driven by the kind of strong leadership that is exactly what is needed - while I acknowledge the comments made regarding various issues, the present situation must not be allowed to continue - my granny used to say that “there are limits to everything” and “what will a certain course of action lead to” and very often during my 30 years in supermarket retailing, our managers had to use their initiative in dealing with certain situations using common sense 

I’ve read through most of your linked thread and replies to same, (even though it was beyond my own understanding) and to me, given my traditional Irish Catholic faith background, it all really boils down to being a decent person and having a properly functioning moral compass, as this is essentially an ethical and moral issue, that used to be the case at the start of the NHS in 1948 and its founding principles - many Irish nurses who joined the NHS from the 1950’s well into the 1980’s came from Irish hospitals run by Irish Catholic nuns who ran the Irish hospitals properly, according to traditional Catholic teachings pre-Vatican II (1962) and to these Irish Catholic nursing nuns, nursing was far more than just a 9-5 job, it was their vocation, their whole life’s work and they passed these values onto the Irish girls that trained under them, many of whom had been convent educated in the Catholic Ireland of that time (to which we need to return) - I’ve met many of these wonderful Irish nurses over the years and it’s ironic that in the years after their retirement many of these elderly Irish women were badly let down by the NHS that has become ideologically driven even before Covid, amid decades long documented scandals of mismanagement and wastage of public funds in multiple ways, where mental health and hidden disability was an afterthought, where the bulk of (already the poor relation and limited) mental health funding was obsessively focused on children’s autism at the expense of autistic adults - aside from the Liverpool Care Pathway (and the horrific Maid programme in Canada) that was only defeated by a worryingly narrow margin in the Commons, as an older and conservative-minded gay man myself, I was outraged to discover that much-needed NHS funding and resources were being given to children in the form of beta-blockers and gender reassignment hormones where also, transgender surgeries were being performed in the NHS - given the horrific stories from detransitioners, I’m totally opposed to this, especially in the case of children - frankly, our political leaders need to “cop themselves on” and do what is right and start to rediscover their moral compass, grow up and stop acting like children - attitudes will only change when strong and properly enforced legislation is passed (and this will work for public education on autism, mental health and hidden disabilities too) that provide for criminal prosecutions and jail time for senior managers in the NHS and politicians who fail to take their ethical and moral responsibilities and obligations sufficiently seriously - they need to be constantly and robustly challenged on their continued failures in a supposedly civilised, compassionate and caring society underpinned by Christian ethical and moral principles and we must take a “zero tolerance” approach and mindset, which has worked very well for other groups fighting for change, such as the gay community 

Thanks ArchaeC and IrishInManchesterUK  for your thoughtful, depply personal and thought provoking replies.

ArchaeC I appreciate your insight w/r/to theology and the "original sin". Your deeply personal response and openness in sharing what happened to you rings with me as I personally experienced abuse from someone in authority to me and had it "swept under the carpet" by authority senior to me at least as i remember it from when I was a child.  So flagging the same concerns w/r/to authority and abuse is to me the same reason why we need robust and active protocols and legislation and don't just rely on the "good will" of those at the top.

IrishInManchesterUK  yep I take your point about how much knowledge and experience and possibly even good will there is out there with specialist charities, think tanks and pressure bodies and maybe there's a way to pull them together to get the single body that you and I are both advocating for.

However picking up on what ArchaeC and B have highlighted how do we stop that same "mega-body" mutating into the same bloated abusive "jobs for the boys and girls" self-interested institution that peddles the same maintain the systemic logic 'cos it's to scary to do otherwise - or people will realise the con so "those at the top" will be out of  a job.

I would propose that if a new framework it is evidentially not safe to build it upon the old framework of unquestioned authority.  Instead it it needs to be so from the bottom up with properly independent statutory oversight and permanent, legally protected representation of the people it is meant to serve.  

By legally protected institution this would be the charities, individual patient led representation, and neurodivergent groups and heck if I'm going all out on the "one flew over the cuckoos nest" bit here I'd also say that people who society says are mentally unwell should also be included in the representation.

Nothing and I mean nothing would be passed into legislation or action until it clears ratification by the people it effects by consultation - and by this I don't mean something was already decided and then we asked them!!!  I mean that the people effected by it come up with the ideas... that is why representation in the group has to be why as suggested.

AND CRITICALLY This group has to be legally protected and because for this also has to be internally and AND EXTERNALLY externally independently audited.

And yep before comes back the argument that "the expert know best" well "they would say that wouldn't they... O f course the establishment says that 'cos they want to keep control of the narrative.

But strip away the bureaucratic bull and get down to it personal. lived, experience is the greatest expertise there is.  Oh yes a degree and a university education helps right the policy, but only the people who it effects actually know whether it helps or harms them.

The selected "experts" are the ones who designed the failing system in the first place and history show they've got "form" in getting it wrong, not admitting to it and covering it up.

And look, I'm not naive enough nor lacking in classical monty python training to not realise there's a risk of a "we're the judean people's front" situation where endless factionalisation paralyses the progress.  But for crying out loud we're all meant to be aiming for the same best outcomes here!

Inclusion isn't about creating chaotic infighting it's about grounding any new body in reality - the journey of which begins right iunder the feet at the foundations.  If we all want a system that actually works for the mentally injured by crisis and neurodivergent then the people who live that reality every day have to be steering the direction for where that reality should head.  Not just handed another "blessed" tick box survey at the beginning and the end.

Thanks ArchaeC and IrishInManchesterUK  for your thoughtful, depply personal and thought provoking replies.

ArchaeC I appreciate your insight w/r/to theology and the "original sin". Your deeply personal response and openness in sharing what happened to you rings with me as I personally experienced abuse from someone in authority to me and had it "swept under the carpet" by authority senior to me at least as i remember it from when I was a child.  So flagging the same concerns w/r/to authority and abuse is to me the same reason why we need robust and active protocols and legislation and don't just rely on the "good will" of those at the top.

IrishInManchesterUK  yep I take your point about how much knowledge and experience and possibly even good will there is out there with specialist charities, think tanks and pressure bodies and maybe there's a way to pull them together to get the single body that you and I are both advocating for.

However picking up on what ArchaeC and B have highlighted how do we stop that same "mega-body" mutating into the same bloated abusive "jobs for the boys and girls" self-interested institution that peddles the same maintain the systemic logic 'cos it's to scary to do otherwise - or people will realise the con so "those at the top" will be out of  a job.

I would propose that if a new framework it is evidentially not safe to build it upon the old framework of unquestioned authority.  Instead it it needs to be so from the bottom up with properly independent statutory oversight and permanent, legally protected representation of the people it is meant to serve.  

By legally protected institution this would be the charities, individual patient led representation, and neurodivergent groups and heck if I'm going all out on the "one flew over the cuckoos nest" bit here I'd also say that people who society says are mentally unwell should also be included in the representation.

Nothing and I mean nothing would be passed into legislation or action until it clears ratification by the people it effects by consultation - and by this I don't mean something was already decided and then we asked them!!!  I mean that the people effected by it come up with the ideas... that is why representation in the group has to be why as suggested.

AND CRITICALLY This group has to be legally protected and because for this also has to be internally and AND EXTERNALLY externally independently audited.

And yep before comes back the argument that "the expert know best" well "they would say that wouldn't they... O f course the establishment says that 'cos they want to keep control of the narrative.

But strip away the bureaucratic bull and get down to it personal. lived, experience is the greatest expertise there is.  Oh yes a degree and a university education helps right the policy, but only the people who it effects actually know whether it helps or harms them.

The selected "experts" are the ones who designed the failing system in the first place and history show they've got "form" in getting it wrong, not admitting to it and covering it up.

And look, I'm not naive enough nor lacking in classical monty python training to not realise there's a risk of a "we're the judean people's front" situation where endless factionalisation paralyses the progress.  But for crying out loud we're all meant to be aiming for the same best outcomes here!

Inclusion isn't about creating chaotic infighting it's about grounding any new body in reality - the journey of which begins right iunder the feet at the foundations.  If we all want a system that actually works for the mentally injured by crisis and neurodivergent then the people who live that reality every day have to be steering the direction for where that reality should head.  Not just handed another "blessed" tick box survey at the beginning and the end.