New Statutory body as an alternative to the NHS for mental health and hidden disability

While relatively minor issues can be figured out, the reality at the end of the day is that the current crisis situation is totally unsustainable and further emphasises the need to “take the bull by the horns” in implementing innovative, fundamental, far-reaching and groundbreaking legislative changes where, yes, a revolution is exactly what is absolutely required, much needed and long overdue, where difficult decisions must be made, even if unpopular to some, driven by the kind of strong leadership that is exactly what is needed - while I acknowledge the comments made regarding various issues, the present situation must not be allowed to continue - my granny used to say that “there are limits to everything” and “what will a certain course of action lead to” and very often during my 30 years in supermarket retailing, our managers had to use their initiative in dealing with certain situations using common sense 

I’ve read through most of your linked thread and replies to same, (even though it was beyond my own understanding) and to me, given my traditional Irish Catholic faith background, it all really boils down to being a decent person and having a properly functioning moral compass, as this is essentially an ethical and moral issue, that used to be the case at the start of the NHS in 1948 and its founding principles - many Irish nurses who joined the NHS from the 1950’s well into the 1980’s came from Irish hospitals run by Irish Catholic nuns who ran the Irish hospitals properly, according to traditional Catholic teachings pre-Vatican II (1962) and to these Irish Catholic nursing nuns, nursing was far more than just a 9-5 job, it was their vocation, their whole life’s work and they passed these values onto the Irish girls that trained under them, many of whom had been convent educated in the Catholic Ireland of that time (to which we need to return) - I’ve met many of these wonderful Irish nurses over the years and it’s ironic that in the years after their retirement many of these elderly Irish women were badly let down by the NHS that has become ideologically driven even before Covid, amid decades long documented scandals of mismanagement and wastage of public funds in multiple ways, where mental health and hidden disability was an afterthought, where the bulk of (already the poor relation and limited) mental health funding was obsessively focused on children’s autism at the expense of autistic adults - aside from the Liverpool Care Pathway (and the horrific Maid programme in Canada) that was only defeated by a worryingly narrow margin in the Commons, as an older and conservative-minded gay man myself, I was outraged to discover that much-needed NHS funding and resources were being given to children in the form of beta-blockers and gender reassignment hormones where also, transgender surgeries were being performed in the NHS - given the horrific stories from detransitioners, I’m totally opposed to this, especially in the case of children - frankly, our political leaders need to “cop themselves on” and do what is right and start to rediscover their moral compass, grow up and stop acting like children - attitudes will only change when strong and properly enforced legislation is passed (and this will work for public education on autism, mental health and hidden disabilities too) that provide for criminal prosecutions and jail time for senior managers in the NHS and politicians who fail to take their ethical and moral responsibilities and obligations sufficiently seriously - they need to be constantly and robustly challenged on their continued failures in a supposedly civilised, compassionate and caring society underpinned by Christian ethical and moral principles and we must take a “zero tolerance” approach and mindset, which has worked very well for other groups fighting for change, such as the gay community 

The Church of England’s structures aren’t what they should be either, and the same could be said of other denominations. I don’t think many structures can prevent abuse happening if somebody is really determined to do the acts, but effective protocols within structures can reduce the chances of abuse occurring and provide safe routes to allow victims to come forward. It’s just very sad that even after conviction of abuse by a priest, the default setting is often to protect the abuser and not the abused.

Phased said:

I am personally struck by the concept that the only way not to be tarnished by "original sin" is to follow someone's orders - rather than having one's own moral and ethical compass to listen to.

According to the Catholic Church, original sin applies to everyone, including priests, bishops and the Pope. Following orders does not relieve someone of original sin because it’s not a temporary or intermittent state. People aren’t ‘blemished by original sin’ because original sin is a continuous state. 

I’ve never believed in the concept of original sin, even when I used to be a person of faith, that’s not to say people lead faultless lives.

I agree the NHS needs reform and we need services and support for autistic people. The way we are talked about and dismissed by some individuals and the media is unacceptable. I’m just not knowledgeable enough about the wider workings of the NHS to offer viable solutions to address the issue. 

IrishInManchesterUK said:

I do take on board the reality that some within the Catholic Church have abused their positions of power which was against the founding principles of these orders while equally, many have told lies about these priests and nuns and have been able to “make these lies stick”, harming the reputations of those good priests and nuns who only wanted to do good

No. Not equally.

Making false accusations about people is a criminal offence in this country and others. Many more priests have been convicted of sexual abuse than people charged of making false claims.

An attitude of the ‘priest’ being beyond the laws that apply to everyone else, enabled many to escape criminal charges until years later.  

I was physically assaulted by the PP who came after the priest who was convicted of sexual offences. Fear of not being believed because the offence felt minor compared to the sexual abuse that was going on prevented me from taking things further at the time. I got help, and with that support reported the assault. The bishop tried to brush things under the carpet but in the end, the priest admitted the assault.  

I don’t have enough knowledge of the financial workings and practical functioning of the various models of the NHS to make an assessment of your point about making the service work for everyone. I do agree that it isn’t functioning well at the moment.

One aspect of this regarding the role of the Catholic Church in times past, long before the state provided “help to the people” (alms for the poor, such as in the medieval era and in the 19th century, through various religious orders of friars, priests and nuns) was the issue of financial and other support - some orders of nuns provided hospitals, schools and other forms of practical help - the Mercy Sisters, the Cluny Nuns, the Salesians, the Franciscans, the Dominicans, the Loreto Sisters, the Presentation Sisters, the Jesuits, all provided practical help, especially during and before the 19th century and still do today, albeit in a much more limited way, including in the US - I do take on board the reality that some within the Catholic Church have abused their positions of power which was against the founding principles of these orders while equally, many have told lies about these priests and nuns and have been able to “make these lies stick”, harming the reputations of those good priests and nuns who only wanted to do good - while we obviously need the support of these religious groups as much as we do from the state, I don’t believe that we should exclusively rely on help from the state nor on other groups that try to push “another” agenda, but all of these various forms of state, religious and other support could be integrated into a single body, for example in the area of mental health and hidden disability, where many autism charities for example, despite having huge expertise and experience, constantly report being chronically underfunded, which itself is a separate issue that must be effectively tackled - a proper programme of public education on all aspects of mental health and hidden disability has become essential, given how modern life is becoming increasingly stressful mentally for many people and is causing ever more people to be diagnosed with many conditions like autism, given the advances in modern medical science in our current times 

One aspect of this regarding the role of the Catholic Church in times past, long before the state provided “help to the people” (alms for the poor, such as in the medieval era and in the 19th century, through various religious orders of friars, priests and nuns) was the issue of financial and other support - some orders of nuns provided hospitals, schools and other forms of practical help - the Mercy Sisters, the Cluny Nuns, the Salesians, the Franciscans, the Dominicans, the Loreto Sisters, the Presentation Sisters, the Jesuits, all provided practical help, especially during and before the 19th century and still do today, albeit in a much more limited way, including in the US - I do take on board the reality that some within the Catholic Church have abused their positions of power which was against the founding principles of these orders while equally, many have told lies about these priests and nuns and have been able to “make these lies stick”, harming the reputations of those good priests and nuns who only wanted to do good - while we obviously need the support of these religious groups as much as we do from the state, I don’t believe that we should exclusively rely on help from the state nor on other groups that try to push “another” agenda, but all of these various forms of state, religious and other support could be integrated into a single body, for example in the area of mental health and hidden disability, where many autism charities for example, despite having huge expertise and experience, constantly report being chronically underfunded, which itself is a separate issue that must be effectively tackled - a proper programme of public education on all aspects of mental health and hidden disability has become essential, given how modern life is becoming increasingly stressful mentally for many people and is causing ever more people to be diagnosed with many conditions like autism, given the advances in modern medical science in our current times 

IrishInManchesterUK said:

I do take on board the reality that some within the Catholic Church have abused their positions of power which was against the founding principles of these orders while equally, many have told lies about these priests and nuns and have been able to “make these lies stick”, harming the reputations of those good priests and nuns who only wanted to do good

No. Not equally.

Making false accusations about people is a criminal offence in this country and others. Many more priests have been convicted of sexual abuse than people charged of making false claims.

An attitude of the ‘priest’ being beyond the laws that apply to everyone else, enabled many to escape criminal charges until years later.  

I was physically assaulted by the PP who came after the priest who was convicted of sexual offences. Fear of not being believed because the offence felt minor compared to the sexual abuse that was going on prevented me from taking things further at the time. I got help, and with that support reported the assault. The bishop tried to brush things under the carpet but in the end, the priest admitted the assault.  

I don’t have enough knowledge of the financial workings and practical functioning of the various models of the NHS to make an assessment of your point about making the service work for everyone. I do agree that it isn’t functioning well at the moment.