Teaching, Aspergers and capability proceedings

Hi, I'm on my mobile phone so hard to type. Access to work should provide a workplace assessment including recommendations for reasonable adjustment.

As your union to require even informal capacity is halted until the assessment is complete, and until 6 months after all reasonable adjustments are fully in place. Don't be afraid to use your GP to sign you off for stress due to the capability on top of a new diagnosis. Believe me, it puts capability to a fast stop.

Your workplace assessor will have a number of ideas to help. It's worth asking that included in the package is training of your direct line manager and colleagues in the science department whom you have regular dealings with are trained in hidden disabilities awareness.

With complaints, I am pretty sure this will be a mix of discrimination, plus you likely being more stressed so less able to use coping mechanisms you already have. Reduce the stress then hopefully you will have less complaints.

I have supported my best friend through three separate attempts to dislodge him from a council job he is very good at. Every time it came when a new manager though that the reasonable adaptions were pandering to him and they were eroded (like lowering the screens in his cubicle because everyone should work in open plan space!)

Most recent one he got reassessed by access to work (as he'd not been seen 5 years)and they gave him a terrific package of support and promised in front to HR in the council to represent him in a tribunal against the council for discrimination if they didn't implement everything.

I suspect you are with Unison. If you are ring central office to discuss your case. You may get a specialist rep.

I think that your union should be able to provide some specialist input on reasonable adjustments. It won't be the local rep but they are able to call on specialists who have the specialist knowledge.

I had good experience with Access to Work but I don't think that they will be able to react quickly enough for your meeting this week. They would send someone to do a workplace asessment and that might result in some recommendations in due course. You could always ring them now and ask what they would suggest.

Unfortunately I think that it may be difficult to rebuild relationships where you work - realistically it may be an unwelcome environment in the future and you may be better off leaving and starting over somewhere else. I went through this a couple of jobs ago and have found a much better environment to work in. I know your circumstances are very different so that may be a less attractive option for you.

RidleyRumpus said:

Unfortunately I only came into teaching late and have very little pension so retirement is not really an option.

Even if I did have something decent ill health retirement is almost impossible nowadays.

I suggest you get someone better than me to advise/representative you.  And if you want to leave and they are desperate to get rid of you.  Try to negotiate a good payoff.  Other options are, fight to stay or claim unfair/constructive dismissal.

Unfortunately I only came into teaching late and have very little pension so retirement is not really an option.

Even if I did have something decent ill health retirement is almost impossible nowadays.

RidleyRumpus said:

I have a really important meeting with School on Thursday at which I will disclose my Aspergers. I suspect that this will not go down well as they really want to get rid.

Reasonable Adjustments will no doubt come up and I struggle to know what to ask for, should I contact Access to Work, Prospects or both?

Has anyone had any experience with either of these?

One option is to try to get them to retire you on a good pension.

Where I used to live there were two individuals who had obvious mental health issues (not autism) and were not fit to work.  They both had retired on good pensions while in their late forties.

I often wondered if early retirement lead to their eccentric behaviour.   Or were they retired early because it was the easy way to get rid of them.

I have a really important meeting with School on Thursday at which I will disclose my Aspergers. I suspect that this will not go down well as they really want to get rid.

Reasonable Adjustments will no doubt come up and I struggle to know what to ask for, should I contact Access to Work, Prospects or both?

Has anyone had any experience with either of these?

NAS18906 said:

[quote][/quote]

I have struggled for some time with complaints from parents and students for reasons that I struggle to fathom as the students results have at least been in line with other teachers (who receive few if any complaints)

Are you trying to understand this aspect of the situation? Are you getting any counselling and assistance from an autism support team?

On a different tack, have you enjoyed teaching? is it a career that you are finding rewarding and that you want to continue with?

I was only diagnosed last week and am sort of in denial at the moment. I am however under the care of the local IAPT service for the depression but have not been able to secure any counselling but have a support worker.

I enjoy teaching but not the BS that goes with it nowadays. We have to do so much paperwork to prove that green is blue or to prove that we have done the paperwork it is just not true. Almost non of it is useful apart from the great god OFSTED must be satisfied that all boxes are ticked even though no one will ever refer to them, EVER.

Unfortunately i am of an age and have a gender history that would make it hard to find any form of alternative employment esp one with a pension.

Thankyou for this, I am aware and have been monitoring the situation re transition. There have been some incidents of overt transphobic abuse and complaints so I am keeping a log.

RidleyRumpus said:

[quote]There are a few discussions on transgender issues in the forum it probably isn't central to this thread?[/quote]

Not really other than it making it more difficult to find alternative employment and possibly being another reason for the recent (post transition) upturn in the number of complaints.

If complaints have increased since transition then this could indicate discrimination on the grounds of gender reassignment. Just as for disability, this is a protected characteristic defined in the Equality Act (2010). So it may actually be relevant if you are trying at some point in the future to demonstrate constructive dismissal. It can be hard to prove, but if you have complaints figures that correlate with transition that may be clear evidence. I say "may", as it is an opinion rather than advice. I am not qualified to provide such advice.

RidleyRumpus said:

I have struggled for some time with complaints from parents and students for reasons that I struggle to fathom as the students results have at least been in line with other teachers (who receive few if any complaints)

Are you trying to understand this aspect of the situation? Are you getting any counselling and assistance from an autism support team?

On a different tack, have you enjoyed teaching? is it a career that you are finding rewarding and that you want to continue with?

I may well ask if the school maybe with the help of Access to Work can purchase a tablet and some seating plan SW that includes pics.

I think the first stage is to inform them of the situation in the upcoming meeting. I suspect that this may change their approach, if it does not then I may have to discuss with an employment lawyer about constructive dismissal or if discrimination is occuring.

If they do accept then the school will want to know what Reasonable Adjustments they can make. Which is a tricky one as I do not know what I could ask for.

Not recognising faces, students in this case, is prosopagnosia and is common in people with autism. A reasonable adjustment might be to use Google Glass to recognise faces for you see visionhelp.wordpress.com/.../

Last I heard was that GG was being shelved and I have no idea about cost so it may not be reasonable.

Robert124 said:

In your original post you mention that your head of department accused you of having aspergers.  And you now have been diagnosed with aspergers.

The situation sounds like constructive dismissal and you should be protected by disability discrimination legislation.

She accused me some time ago, years, however i have since been to the head of students support stating that I think I may be on the spectrum and asking about how to be diagnosed. But she could not help me.

I am having a meeting soon to discuss "Informal Capability"* I would inform the school of being on the ASD spectrum at that meeting and if they proceed then a decision would have to be made but even then I am not sure re constructive dismissal. Though I will take legal advise.

* (Informal capability is a process where the issues are discussed and a "support package" inc targets is put in place.

If you do not pass the targets you are put onto formal capability. Almost no one makes it onto formal capability as that goes onto your permanent record and makes it almost impossible for you to get alternative employment, so prior to that the employee resigns (often having accepted a settlement)

The process is a bullies charter as the targets are often subjective (observations) and as you cannot afford to go onto the formal part and they know it, then the teacher is forced to settle/resign.)

In your original post you mention that your head of department accused you of having aspergers.  And you now have been diagnosed with aspergers.

The situation sounds like constructive dismissal and you should be protected by disability discrimination legislation.

Yes, you are right that depression can be a protected characteristic but it still wouldn't protect your job if there were no reasonable adjustments that could be made to enable you to perform the job adequately. It would depend on the job and the impact of the illness on the individual. When I was assessed by occy health, they took the view that software engineering could be successfully undertaken, with reasonable adjustments, by someone with autism but each individual and each job has to be assessed on a case by case basis.

I think that it might not help your case, for example if it went to an employment tribunal, if you did not disclose the material fact of your Asperger's diagnosis. IANAL, so you should take legal advice on that point perhaps?

NAS18906 said:

Ill health (e.g. anxiety and depression) can be grounds for termination.

Depression is a protected characteristic in the equality act.

Autism, in and of itself, can't be grounds for termination because of the equality act. They are obliged to help you, with "reasonable adjustments" , to overcome your autism so that you can perform the role. However, I don't know what reasonable adjustments could be made because of the importance of the inter personal communication that is central to a teaching role. But, you managed it for many years, do you think that you have changed your approach or do you think that culture and discipline in schools has perhaps changed? Perhaps your union or access to work could suggest some suitable adjustments?

This is where is becomes tricky, I have asked this in the past and no one seems to be able to suggest reasonable adjustments, it is up to the person being disadvantaged.

Ill health (e.g. anxiety and depression) can be grounds for termination. Autism, in and of itself, can't be grounds for termination because of the equality act. They are obliged to help you, with "reasonable adjustments" , to overcome your autism so that you can perform the role. However, I don't know what reasonable adjustments could be made because of the importance of the inter personal communication that is central to a teaching role. But, you managed it for many years, do you think that you have changed your approach or do you think that culture and discipline in schools has perhaps changed? Perhaps your union or access to work could suggest some suitable adjustments?

On the union question, now that I understand the affect of my autism, I would be much more considerate of my own behaviour and of the size of the effort I need to make to really try and understand what other people are thinking and why they do the things they do.

NAS18906 said:

Hi Ridley,

You should speak to the occupational health department of your employer (perhaps the LEA?) and ask for the disciplinary proceedings to be suspended until you have been assessed by occy health.

I have already been assessed by OH but not for ASD but for the anxiety and depression.

I would formally declare it to whoever is in charge of the capability proceedings. The Equality Act provides you with some very significant protections and they will not want to be seen to be persecuting a "disabled" person. Having autism doesn't make you disabled but that is the term that a layman will understand. Your union should have specialists that can help you in your situation.

My experience of unions prior to diagnosis was that they were rubbish. Now that I know that I have autism, I would be much more understanding of how to use them best.

Care to elaborate?

People with autism are often in the courts and tribunals because we are not very good at negotiating through the social interactions that can smooth the way. We also tend to interpret the rules differently so we see persecution and wrongness where NT people wouldn't.

Tell me about it!

You can also call Access To Work. This is a government organisation that aims to keep disabled people in employment and, given that you have a diagnosis, they will do what they can to help you work your way through this.

Will do, thanks for that.

Teaching is not the most obvious career for someone with autism. There have been a couple on the forum over the last couple of years but they have been the exception rather than the rule. I'm a physicist currently in software but would never imagine being able to engage or control a class of pupils!

Young ones are OK, older ones nowadays are more tricky to engage/control.

There are a few discussions on transgender issues in the forum it probably isn't central to this thread?

Not really other than it making it more difficult to find alternative employment and possibly being another reason for the recent (post transition) upturn in the number of complaints.

Hi Ridley,

You should speak to the occupational health department of your employer (perhaps the LEA?) and ask for the disciplinary proceedings to be suspended until you have been assessed by occy health. I would formally declare it to whoever is in charge of the capability proceedings. The Equality Act provides you with some very significant protections and they will not want to be seen to be persecuting a "disabled" person. Having autism doesn't make you disabled but that is the term that a layman will understand. Your union should have specialists that can help you in your situation.

My experience of unions prior to diagnosis was that they were rubbish. Now that I know that I have autism, I would be much more understanding of how to use them best. People with autism are often in the courts and tribunals because we are not very good at negotiating through the social interactions that can smooth the way. We also tend to interpret the rules differently so we see persecution and wrongness where NT people wouldn't.

You can also call Access To Work. This is a government organisation that aims to keep disabled people in employment and, given that you have a diagnosis, they will do what they can to help you work your way through this.

Teaching is not the most obvious career for someone with autism. There have been a couple on the forum over the last couple of years but they have been the exception rather than the rule. I'm a physicist currently in software but would never imagine being able to engage or control a class of pupils!

There are a few discussions on transgender issues in the forum it probably isn't central to this thread?

NAS9920 said:

fascinating...

if that is their attitude towards a professional colleague in their midst, i can only wonder as to their attitude towards an autistic child...

speak to your union rep if you have one. this smacks of constructive dismissal imo.

Remember they do not know I have Aspergers as I have not told them yet.

I am being represented by a senior union rep (though I have to say I have not been that impressed with the dealings that I have had (many) with the unions up to now)

unseen forces and all that, time to move... 

Not as easy as it seems. I am Transgendered as well* which makes it tricky to get alternate postings in the education field**

*Studies have shown that you are much more likely to have gender dysphoria if you on the ASD spectrum, so this should have been another clue.

** I would like to think that it will make no difference but talking to other teachers who are TG makes me less than hopefull.