all are server
or all are modrate
or all are mild
all them suffring.
all are server
or all are modrate
or all are mild
all them suffring.
NAS7937 said:I think you have several axes to grind and are reluctant to let others have an opinion that is different from yours.
I won't be continuing to respond on this thread. I've said everything that I want to on the subject and have misinterpreted nothing - just asked for respect for all autistic people and for none of us to have to bear a demeaning label because a carer thinks it convenient..
No, I wasn't the one complaining. I was just responding to your imagined direspect by the medical profession towards autistic people. I have no axes to grind but it's clear that you do.
Also, just because not everyone agrees with you doesn't mean you aren't entitled to your opinion, wrong as it is.
NAS7937 said:I think you have several axes to grind and are reluctant to let others have an opinion that is different from yours.
I won't be continuing to respond on this thread. I've said everything that I want to on the subject and have misinterpreted nothing - just asked for respect for all autistic people and for none of us to have to bear a demeaning label because a carer thinks it convenient..
No, I wasn't the one complaining. I was just responding to your imagined direspect by the medical profession towards autistic people. I have no axes to grind but it's clear that you do.
Then you should not object to the term 'low functioning'. Caregivers have to have a way of evaluating what help to give a person by placing them on the spectrum. How is that demeaning?
You're misinterpering the diagnostic process.
Also, I wasn't being disrespectful to to care, I was just requesting clarification.
Again, it appears you are confusing what people say.
NAS7937 said:I am very proud to be autistic and would not choose to be any other way. Nothing I said should give you the impression that I object to the term and introducing that idea is just muddying the waters.
'Low functioning' means that someone has a low level of functioning as a human being. This is a value judgement - the person is being seen as a human being that does not work properly. Like most terms used to describe autistic people it is devised and appplied by NTs who have no idea of the internal reality of being autistic. They judge from what they see on the outside and judge against standards of neurotypical behaviour.
The fact is you can't cut yourself off from reality, existing in your own world, because you have to deal with it, therefore, you have to see yourself in relation to the NT world we all live in. It's not a question of making 'value' judgements' but trying to identify where people need assistance to better able to cope in the world as it is.
Are you suggesting people who need help should be left to cope by themselves?
NAS7937 said:The term 'low functioning' does not engender respect nor does it empower. And who is to say what autistic people are capable of? Non-verbal autistic people termed 'low functioning' have written books although they cannot speak. We should reject this terminology now.
I think you're misinterpreting the phrase 'low functioning'.
Would you object to the word 'autism' as well to describe people?
You have to have some way of describing behaviour and these terms are not value judgements but a way of diagnosing people. They are used as a means of trying to understand and help others.
NAS7937 said:I do not think that human beings should be described as 'low functioning' in any context. Its wrong and demeaning.
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lostmyway said:[quote][/quote]
I do not think that human beings should be described as 'low functioning' in any context. Its wrong and demeaning.
I don't think it's meant to be a demeaning term. It's used to describe the degree to which a person is affected by autism, so it's probably best to look at it as a diagnostic tool.
You have to have a way of profiling individuals to enable carers to decide the best way to help them.
NAS7937 said:I do not think that human beings should be described as 'low functioning' in any context. Its wrong and demeaning.
I don't think it's meant to be a demeaning term. It's used to describe the degree to which a person is affected by autism, so it's probably best to look at it as a diagnostic tool.
You have to have a way of profiling individuals to enable carers to decide the best way to help them.
You hit the nail on the head, I would never push either of my children, but I would like them to achieve something (but only if they are capable). Hopefully enough to gain a decent job when they are older. My daughter is brilliant at sport, running especially, she can run for hours. She is also amazing at dancing, she invents moves she has never seen before and can be so fluid. The problem is she is so anti-social that joining any group to help her progress is not possible. I have tried swimming, tennis, dance, football, I think there were some others along the way. She just can't tolerate them. We are trying the dance again at the minute.
I must admit, it is very frustrating. How do I stop her from going so hyperactive you think she is going to run into a wall (sorry I know she is as she has done it twice before, both creating very large eggs on her head!), or that she is going to hurt me or my son. She can be quite terrifying, what causes it, it just happens, one minute eveything is ok, the next it's like having a bull in the house and I am the matador, about to be pounced on!
I cannot understand even though I try, I am missing something, but am not sure what it is. i feel as thpough I should know why she is suddenly like this, but as she doesn't tell me anything along these lines, it is so tricky.
Interesting comments about your son. My daughter is about to have a test done due to similar problems, have you heard of mursurling? (bad spelling maybe?) If a child has this, they can use coloured filters or a combination of to help them read the writing. Worksheets can be photocpied onto coloured paper (according to their needs) so some might be blue, another red for example.
Apparently someone with this can feel the text is jumping on the page, and as with my daughter, when reading the novels rather than picture books like Julia Donaldson's, the two pages of text amalgamate and cannot be decifered. She manages to read books like Tom Gates as it has doodles all the way through, but she struggles to read any other novel. Our school can do the test, or speak to the optician as they can refer you. Worth a look?
Do your children ever get violent?
Hopefully we will get there in the end, it just seems a very very very long way away!
CJ out...
Not as difficult to organise all of us as it probably sounds
I'm not diagnosed but I'm pretty certain that I'd get a diagnosis if I went for an assessment. I have a routine that works fairly well for all of us, and as long as we stick to it, and I have my morning cup of tea, I can cope with almost anything.
It would probably be more difficult for a completely NT parent actually. I can relate to the kids and understand most of their behaviours. It must be difficult to stand on the outside and not understand their inner world.
It did definitely sound like the author was frustrated didn't it. It is really dificult trying to get people to understand that your child has autism, and high functioning doesn't mean that they can just stop displaying autistic behaviours.
That's a good question with regards to excellence at chosen subjects. My daughter was leaping ahead of her peers in math by a few months into nursery school and it just grew from there. Each time there were new maths things to do, she'd grasp it so easily that it astonished me. I'm not wired for math myself, and I was useless at anything past fractions. My daughter is also great at other subjects, especally science, but she is a bit slower in english (reading, spelling, creative writing) or foreign languages. Not enough to hamper her much through any career she chooses, but enough to frustrate her and upset her at times when it seems like her brain is too fuzzy to do a test or something.
My little boy is also a whiz at math, he's great at everything aside from english really. He does love reading, but he's not very good yet at spelling, and he often skips reading the whole word and decides that it says something different (I think he just takes in the first and last letters a lot of the time). His ability in math, and his interests in space etc started when he was around 7ish properly.
As far as your daughter is concerned, her ability in reading and spelling is how I was as a child. I wasn't great at much else, but that love of reading has carried me to so many different areas of research, and enjoyment. I can't guarantee that your daughter will be able to grasp everything that society wants her to, and I can't guarantee that she won't struggle in high school, but a love of reading is fantastic, and should be the key to helping her find whatever her niche ends up being.
You sound like you've got the right idea already, you're talking about pushing her gently forwards, but not trying to shove her.
It is very interesting listening to your comments and thanks for being so honest, it must be very difficult trying to organise all three of you! It is hard enough for me to do one! I wasn't given a label, so I have no idea but according to this I should imagine high functioning as she can talk and have a conversation, she just often chooses not to, or it has to be on her terms!
The tone didn't bother me really, it just came accross that she had faced alot of people judging her child, it was obviously America and she was clearly frustrated at having to 'prove' her child was Autistic.
Can I ask, how long did it take for your children to be excellent at their chosen subjects? My daughter has potential, she is brilliant at reading and spellings, but in all other areas hasn't a clue. It is not that I want her to be amazing at these, it is just I am hoping things will become easier for her and she will grasp this type of information. I am so worried about high school. Of course I want her to achieve academically, but only at what she is capable of, nothing more. She is 8 now.
thanks CJ
CJ115 said:Hi bumblebeedreams, Thanks so much for this information, I had absolutely no idea what the differences were, and now I know, there are no differences! My daughter at home is absolutely crazy, at school hardly talks and is mouse like however, take her to the doctors and she is classed as mute (I did laugh at that one!). How do you class that? As the mother in the article says, I love my daughter for who she is, not what I want her to be.
I do worry about 'outside' She sees five year olds outside playing on their own and larger groups of older children, but (Jane) cannot understand the boundaries, every day she goes a little further, but has also started taking my three year old with her! All she sees is me being horrible (and lots of other harsh words!) for not letting her play on her own, or walk to school, walk to the shop (cross the really busy road, that she forgot was there!). I will just keep plodding along, but anyone else confused should definately read the article posted - enlightening is an understatement.
CJ
You're welcome.
I do just want to say that I disagree with some of the article, most especially the tone the author uses towards potential readers, but I thought it was a brilliant post with regards to explaining how high functioning and low functioning labels aren't all that helpful.
My daughter is high functioning (the label she was given), and she can do most things, but she really isn't high functioning in the middle of a meltdown almost each morning. She's a math genius, but forgets every day things constantly, and struggles to maintain hygeine without reminders.
My little boy is high functioning, but he's like your little girl is, he doesn't see roads, and I need to help him across, even though he's 11, because he just can't focus on things like that most of the time. He knows everything there is to know about space, the universe, lego, sonic the hedgehog, but he often doesn't realise he needs to go to the toilet until it's too late and he has a wet patch.
I'm high functioning a lot of the time, but that doesn't mean that I don't sit in my car and cry at times because a shopping trip completely overwhelmed me. Or when I completely fail at a conversation that would sometimes be fairly easy for me.
Well, The Online Cambridge Dictionary defines 'autism' as follows:
"A condition that starts in young children and typically causes behaviour that is unusually centred on the self while limiting the development of social and communication skills."
So, I suppose you could say that the difference between 'high functioning autism' and 'low functioning autism' is the degree to which a person's behaviour corresponds to such a definition.
This is why autism is a spectrum; no two people are exactly the same but there will always be a degree of self-absortion and social communication problems.
Hi bumblebeedreams, Thanks so much for this information, I had absolutely no idea what the differences were, and now I know, there are no differences! My daughter at home is absolutely crazy, at school hardly talks and is mouse like however, take her to the doctors and she is classed as mute (I did laugh at that one!). How do you class that? As the mother in the article says, I love my daughter for who she is, not what I want her to be.
I do worry about 'outside' She sees five year olds outside playing on their own and larger groups of older children, but (Jane) cannot understand the boundaries, every day she goes a little further, but has also started taking my three year old with her! All she sees is me being horrible (and lots of other harsh words!) for not letting her play on her own, or walk to school, walk to the shop (cross the really busy road, that she forgot was there!). I will just keep plodding along, but anyone else confused should definately read the article posted - enlightening is an understatement.
CJ
CJ115 said:Hi to everyone who has posted, my daughter was only confirmed as Autistic at the end of August, and we have never been told of a High or a low, I do not even know what the difference in terms is ability this is meant to describe. They did tell me that there is a box for Aspergers, but they don't tick it any more, everything just goes under Autistic. Basically I think the new way of thinking is, whether you are Autistic (whatever bracket) or have Aspergers, then no matter what differences you may or may not have, you are on the same playingfield so to speak. you all have difficulties which require help in one form or another.
I saw alot mentioned above as 'suffering' I have never seen it that way, but as my daughter only communicates about what she wants and doesn't discuss anything about her issues or abilities, how would I know?
All I can do, is be there if she needs me and hope that as she was diagnosed at 8, she can have a better life ahead than if she had been left behind. Then I could see the 'suffering' aspect.
Really interesting conversation, would someone describe what the High and low is?
Thanks CJ
Hi CJ,
High functioning basically means highly functional. Someone with high functioning autism is someone who is fairly capable of doing most of the things that a non autistic person would be.
It's a bit confusing though since there are no such distinctions within the NT population. You just see nice kids, naughty kids, intelligent kids, average kids, below average kids, low intelligence kids, etc.
Not entirely sure why the autistic population is divided that way when someone with so-called 'high functioning autism' could struggle more than someone who's classed as lower functioning, and the person with lower functioning autism could be more able to function in some ways than the one with high functioning autism could.
Have a post that can probably help a bit
As far as all autistic people having difficulties that require help in one form or another, I don't want to be too controversial here, but I've brought up 2 children on the spectrum, and am likely on it myself. What I've witnessed is that it's NTs that are the problem, not the ones with autism. A nice, quiet child on the spectrum is bullied by a gang of merciless NTs, and I'm told that my child is the problem? I can't let my child out on his own yet because he's too vulnerable. Vulnerable to what? Vulnerable to people that would see weakness and hurt him.
Makes you wonder what the world would be like if there were more autistic people than allistic people. Because from what I've seen, most autistic people seem to be able to communicate and understand each-other just fine.
