Stop staring at me!

This is an odd subject but something that bothers me immensly.

I work in an enviroment in which it is mainly populated by peolpe in their 30's to 50's with a small bunch being in their 20's- jobs are monotonous work, to a high standard with hourly quotas and people doing different jobs at different stations (just so you can understand the enviroment and maybe why thing are the way they are- one person said this, and its true: its a boring place, doing the same job (/ OR) not too/ or are difficult tasks).

And something they do which has always infuriated me and still does to this day (as they still do it, some more than others and its become a "thing" for them to whisper to others that it "annoys" me- as some do it more purposelyy than others for laughs)- Is that as im passing by them, minding my own business trying to get from A to B, or somtimes i have to look for someone (of whom can be anywhere within this enviroment so of course i will have to see faces as i scout for said person)- is that they give you this mindless (sometimes cocky sneer) stare for longer than is neccessary and often repeatedly... ...

AND I JUST DONT GET IT. Ive not suddenly sprouted a second head with 5 eyes and a purple tail, im not LOOKING for you, if i was i would have acknowledge your OTT stare (still they look, smirking and commenting to the person next to them), im the same person i was last year, this morning, 10 minutes ago, a second ago- but still they will stare at you- like sheep in a field chewing grass, they just watch you.

For me it feels like getting hit with a wall,, like someone has dropped a heavy weight on the back of my skull and my shoulders- like an impact on my senses- im taking in something i didnt want in the first place- its like having your emotions "raped" as this expectation of how im meant to be is forced on me.

Like, i am there to stroke their ego's:                  #(younger ones are far worse if they are "confident" in themselves, believing because every other guy "drool's" over them, im meant to do the same, when to me they are about as interesting as a paint drying on a wall... Let me make this point clear too, they do not find me attractive, its more about i am meant to find them attractive and i dont, so the one with the big ego's really cant cope with the idea that a guy doesnt like them-             #if the younger ones arent confident, they either duck me, which is fine (mean no mindless staring) or they join in their own way and stare on purpose, knowing they have the backing of their peers if i say or do anything, which i never do anyway OR they just scowl at me)-                #The Older ones it's a bit different, i think some of them want to treat me like a child, which i dont respond to very well at all...! And others, well the only description that i can think of is, i feel like a child in a playground being watched by a padeophile (of course im not a child, im a man, but the creepy factor some of the older ones exude is to me, horrible and repulsive).

For others ive seen them staring at me for a bit beforehand as walk up and past them, as i look at them in pasing, they dont say anything and keep staring like im meant to say or do something (think im meant to smile and say hi, but they have made me feel so umcomfortable and pressured beforehand and to be honest it just wasnt on my mind to do- and i dont know the person so i see no need to.) so i find this offensive too. If they are so interested in saying, "HI" and getting to know me, just say it, take the initiative rather than staring at me expecting me to get it. Ive never said anything as I know i would be the one come across as being offensive, and ive just taken to "Blanking" the person/s out and focusing on a point away from them.

Walking down the high street isnt so bad, as people dont know me so dont have much reason to pay attention, you still get the same ego's and expecations but its far more toned down. AND its a split second meeting, not someone i have to see every day, all day (although in my job, its more i work in a set station, away from others but still in sight and only see them when i pass for that few seconds or minutes does that stare factor come into play).

Initially i had no response to people who did this, i just got mad internally and would act out on my enviroment (Banging my locker, hitting my machine, hitting open doors, lifting far more than i would normally, throwing things harder than usual etc etc- not all the time mind you, just time to time- otherwise i would be sacked, so its "controlled" and rare but i have done these things)- but sometime people would do rude things to me too when i looked their way the odd time or moment (<key word- im not staring, jut having a quick look round- something i limit myself too very much now to avoid this negative attitude), like pull faces or exaggerate their eyes widening them (often i felt like this was imitating/ mocking me as im aware i have wide eyes), or they would "narrow" their eyes at me in a challenging manner. These things i have employed later on now myself (when i remember to use them, doesnt come naturally to me) at people too, and to my surprise its like i have slapped them in the face and they stop staring and/or stop being cocky (hasnt always worked tho, some people are just not nice and do it all the more, so i have no choice but to look away not out of fear of the person, but fear of myself loosing my temper).

I mean for me, yeah of course i will look round at people, but not all the time and not without good reason- like if someone is doing a job i have instructed them to do and i go away and leave them to it, of course i will watch them for the first minute or two to make sure they are doing it ok and arent struggling and help them when its needed, once i see they are ok thats it, i dont bother anymore as i dont need to. Or if im working away and hear voices, i may turn around, see who it is (often i cant actually distunguish what words are being said, more just who-ever is speaking i can hear- i got my hearing tested and turns out i have good hearing...), once i see who it is, i go back to what im doing as its nothing to do with me. Done.

Im not a nosey person at all, and cant stand people that are. Go figure, im working in a small, monotonous enviroment with extroverted people that are forced to be quiet.

I remember times when i would be talking to someone briefly about something like a film or an event (rarely do i talk to people, so this was only an occasional occurence), and out of the corner of my eye, id see another person staring at us, as i had this conversation- nothing funny was being said, but it was a good natured conversation- the person watching us would just burst into laughter by themselves and kept watching us talk. I didnt do or say anything (the converastion had nothing to do with the watcher and i had no reason to talk to them, and just thought they were being silly and wierd), just said bye to the person im talking to and walk away feeling very confused and angry by the person who was watching and laughed at us. No idea what that was about, just infuriated me (the watcher in this circumstance was one of the younger ones with an ego).

Sometime i wished (and still do) that people wore a paper bag over their head or some sort of futuristic fantasy device so it meant i NEVER had to see their faces and they could not see mine- but all you would see would be that a person is there so you dont walk into them and the only people you will see is the ones you actually want to...!! That would be bliss!!!- and i didnt have to see their body language, so be like just seeing a big 6foot tall box (one or two woman are gross, like they almost start flaunting themselves at you, desperately wanting your attention- not that i dont like woman, but damn ive got an amazing wife at home none of these can even compare to and these woman just arent nice and its inappropriate, if I did what they did, i would get a harrassment charge- i havent said anything to my managers as ive noticed they are very friendly with said woman, and dont seem to mind the "flirty" behaviour- guess it flatters their ego's too... so i dont expect to be taken serious and worse, it could be flipped back on me.)

It make me feel a little sad tho, when i see other New people who come into the enviroment and they seem to get on fine, like they have no wierdness and they even talk to people like they have known them their whole lives and vice-versa the older ones speak to them fine, utter respect almost from the start (whereas with me, people were more often than not condescending and patronising when they first spoke to me, and i didnt appreciate that- i did find out years later when someone asked when my 21st Birthday was so they could set up a Birthday card signing, i told them that was years ago, im 26 now (at the time they asked), they were shocked and commented that they thot i was only just newly turned 18 when i started (i was 24 when i started work in the current place- so i think a lot of people believed i was very young and naive- explains some of the attitude and looking at me like the way a dog stares at a piece of meat in a butcher...!).                 Whereas to me, these people are unwanted strangers, who i know by name and face and that all. Like it makes me question myself and why i get so offended and i cant just talk to these people and why its always so difficult (to be honest ive tried and didnt like it, and often found i gave something away to the person that made them feel they have an upperhand on me and exploit it later, OR ive found them to be incredibly "Scripted" in the way they talked that it was hard to say something outside of their "script".)

Its long, but ive tried to explain how i feel and the different scenarios as best i could. Hopefully folks get what im saying and have the patience to read through it.

So, im wondering do other people feel like this too?

  • Marjorie195 said:

    I think that you need to smile more. Our faces show what we think of the world arround us. You are unhappy with your working world and the people in it, so you are telling people this, by frowning at them.

    You say that when you are moving arround your work place, that you are looking for someone and therefore need to look at peoples faces. If they look back at you, then you should smile briefly and if you are near enough, just say " I am looking for whoever". They would then understand why you were looking and know that you are not angry/unhappy at seeing them. The frown is an expression of disapproval. A vague smile is benign/friendly. You don't have to like a person before you smile at them, but if you catch someones eye, it is less confrontational to do so.

    I used to be depressed, but got fed up with seeing the image of a fat, miserable, frumpy, middle-aged woman in every mirror I encountered. I decided to smile at myself each time I saw my reflection, and slowly acquired a different view of myself. It is a known fact that using the muscles that form a smile, enhances our mood too.

    I have also collected for charity, and a smile draws out the money faster than anything else.

    Try smiling at random at older people in the street, if you catch their eye. When you see a face light up in response, you know that you have improved their day as well as your own.

    The vast majority of human beings are nice, friendly people, who just want to get along with each other. You don't have to view them as potential enemies. Smiling is good for you and good them. Spread a little happiness.

    I wouldn't recommend that. I have got into the habit of smiling at people all the time, I have done it for so long now I can't remember exactly when it started. But I do remember that I started to smile at people as it was a non-offensive facial gesture which is meant to put people at ease. However I do it in every situation where I don't get what is going on and so I smile. So after a time I started getting people talking about me saying "She's weird, she smiles too much" or "I'll have what she's on as she never stops smiling". Even when I don't feel like smiling it is now automatic that I smile in response to people whatever the situation. It feels uncomfortable and awkward as it is a forced smile every time.

  • longman said:

    Smiling certainly helps. But NTs (non autistics) don't smile all the time. They smile when the need arises.

    Smiling as much as possible is a good tactic for people on the autistic spectrum, but smiling all the time doesn't look natural, a forced smile can be misconstrued as sarcasm or ridicule, and occasionally, if the mood around you is more sombre, or there has been bad news for someone, still smiling may be inappropriate.

    Part of the problem with autistic spectrum is the neutral or sad facial expression (for which trying to smile is a useful counter-mechanism), and we are slow to pick up external social signals telling us we need to smile, and therefore slower at responding to others. The neutral or sad face may in fact be a reaction to being told off for having the wrong facial expression so often it becomes safer to adopt neutral.

    The trouble is this doesn't figure in the Triad of Impairments, or in any advice. Consider the NAS web page "Social Skills for adolescents and adults" (Living with autism - communicating and interacting - social skills). It only mentions smiling in respect to an inappropriate action - someone who smiled when it was a funeral - and it only mentions facial expression as the subject of ongoing research. It is one of the most crucial issues for social communication but NAS hasn't sussed it yet.

    Well said. My experience is defaulting to smile expression due to bad reactions from people during childhood, and now I can't switch the default off, so I get labelled as weird and too smiley.

  • Smiling certainly helps. But NTs (non autistics) don't smile all the time. They smile when the need arises.

    Smiling as much as possible is a good tactic for people on the autistic spectrum, but smiling all the time doesn't look natural, a forced smile can be misconstrued as sarcasm or ridicule, and occasionally, if the mood around you is more sombre, or there has been bad news for someone, still smiling may be inappropriate.

    Part of the problem with autistic spectrum is the neutral or sad facial expression (for which trying to smile is a useful counter-mechanism), and we are slow to pick up external social signals telling us we need to smile, and therefore slower at responding to others. The neutral or sad face may in fact be a reaction to being told off for having the wrong facial expression so often it becomes safer to adopt neutral.

    The trouble is this doesn't figure in the Triad of Impairments, or in any advice. Consider the NAS web page "Social Skills for adolescents and adults" (Living with autism - communicating and interacting - social skills). It only mentions smiling in respect to an inappropriate action - someone who smiled when it was a funeral - and it only mentions facial expression as the subject of ongoing research. It is one of the most crucial issues for social communication but NAS hasn't sussed it yet.

  • I think that you need to smile more. Our faces show what we think of the world arround us. You are unhappy with your working world and the people in it, so you are telling people this, by frowning at them.

    You say that when you are moving arround your work place, that you are looking for someone and therefore need to look at peoples faces. If they look back at you, then you should smile briefly and if you are near enough, just say " I am looking for whoever". They would then understand why you were looking and know that you are not angry/unhappy at seeing them. The frown is an expression of disapproval. A vague smile is benign/friendly. You don't have to like a person before you smile at them, but if you catch someones eye, it is less confrontational to do so.

    I used to be depressed, but got fed up with seeing the image of a fat, miserable, frumpy, middle-aged woman in every mirror I encountered. I decided to smile at myself each time I saw my reflection, and slowly acquired a different view of myself. It is a known fact that using the muscles that form a smile, enhances our mood too.

    I have also collected for charity, and a smile draws out the money faster than anything else.

    Try smiling at random at older people in the street, if you catch their eye. When you see a face light up in response, you know that you have improved their day as well as your own.

    The vast majority of human beings are nice, friendly people, who just want to get along with each other. You don't have to view them as potential enemies. Smiling is good for you and good them. Spread a little happiness. Smile

  • Social integration, "fitting in", remains fundamental to most workplaces, but seems to be one of the least understood aspects of autistic spectrum.

    To work in the very intense workplace you describe, non autistic people need compensations. Often these 'compensations' wouldn't get management approval, especially if thought to undermine productivity, deadlines etc., so they are done in secret.

    The compensations will depend on common understanding - "in-jokes" where everyone understands what is going on without having to explain the joke. This may involve parodying or mocking management rulings, or managers themselves. Some of it may be displacement activity - a huge amount of productivity is lost by creating unnecessary "work" that is vastly more interesting than the required work, but provides a diversion, and helps maintain collective sanity under pressure.

    It can be a bit like schoolkids inventing an imaginary language. It is there as a challenge, which provides more fun than doing the actual work.

    Anyone who cannot fit in with these rituals is likely then to become part of the "entertainment".  You don't share their collective 'joke' - why not?

    In some workplaces you'd get interviewed by fellow workers at length to try to better understand your perspective. These "interviews" may take the form of elaborate plots to take you through a story line and find out how you react. You can get a good insight into this watching videos of the comedy series The Office; the way in which the main characters have a go at quiet geeky types.

    Here it seems they've found out you don't like being stared at or whispered about. So the displacement activirty will become an elaborate common joke, where they'll try to get reactions from you, and they'll compare notes on the outcomes, and come up with new schemes to wind you up even more.

    This happens almost universally to people on the spectrum in the workplace. But there's no mention of it in the Triad of Impairments. You wont find it in the NAS guidelines for employers. Although work environments were discussed in the draft update of Living Rewarding and Fulfilling lives (the consultation period for which closed on 19th December), there was no sign of any comprehensuion of this phenomenon.

    It constructively excludes many people o the spectrum from gaining employment. It is therefore one of the most crucial areas for autism research (you might think), but there is more money tio be made dioing silly things on MRI scanners, hence 97% of autism research finding is spent pointlessly.

    How do you resolve it? I don't imagine for a moment that your boss or Human Resources will have the foggiest what you are on about. It wont be in any of the leaflets they got from NAS!  And you'll be suggesting things going on at work that seriously undermine productivity, which will just add to the antagonism when it is followed up. Management will be heavy handed and accusatory about any improper goings on. So it will be fervently denied, while stirring up even more antipathy towards you.

    Having only recently got a diagnosis you haven't had time to take stock of how the autism affects you. You could ask management if they'd support you to go for some counselling sessions, or one of those conferences run by Sheffield Hallam University or NAS on living with autism. I think you are owed some support on this, and it might be you could argue that having had the diagnosis you need some outside help adapting.

    Alternatively what you need to do is to reduce your responses to the ribbing to "neutral" - you need to find a direction and tactic that encounters least resistance. It is probably the easiest way. Try very hard not to get upset and just smile. Don't make any protests like banging drawers shut. Don't show you are affected by it.

    There aren't many books tackling the workplace. There is a Sheffield Hallam "Adults Speak out about Asperger Sydrome Series title: "Asperger Syndrome & Employment" edited by G Edmonds and Luke Beardon (Jessica Kingsley Publishers 2008 ISBN  978 1 84310 648 7) which contains individual experiences, but nothing that quite matches what you describe.

    I've used a book "Managing with Asperger Syndrome" by Malcolm Johnson JKP 2005 (ISBN 1 84310 199 8), which is hard going and a bit to personal to the author, but where it is useful is in describing environments similar to those in which you are yourself working.

    If your AS is quite marked there is a useful autobiography Marc Fleisher's "Making Sense of the Unfeasible - My life journey with Asperger Syndrome" JKP 2003 ISBN  1 84310 165 8  This goes through both growing up and employment coaching tennis. I mention it because it does go into a lot of depth about the issues he encountered.

    Hope 2015 brings you better life experiences.

  • Former Member
    Former Member

    Sorry, I was in a hurry and didn't want to offend by posting an inappropraite reply by assuming the wrong gender.

    if you keep yourself separate then they will treat you as more separate and it can turn into a vicious circle where you might become bullied or ostracised.

    For most people, there is some social content at work and you aren't engaging in it so they will think you are different or odd. Do you have any friends at work?

    Do you manage to smile and look people in the eye at all? These are things that many aspies struggle with and it marks us out as odd looking. It is possible to practice and overcome these issues.

    Are you getting any help or counselling since your diagnosis?

    Do you think you could discuss problems like this with your boss or with your HR department?

  • Swish that purple tail like you mean it Smile

    btw sounds like that job is getting to you. Mine does at times!

  • Yeah, it's not so good- I wish I could integrate, but it's just not something I can do, i used to want to, now I just prefer to just keep a distance, as it's healthier and easier for me.

    im a guy in his 30's- wondering why it's important if I'm M or F, out of curiosity?

    i was just recently diagnosed as having AS on a high scale.

  • Former Member
    Former Member

    I think your experience is common for people with autistic spectrum disorders. Failing to integrate and be part of the crew is a common thing.

    I couldn't work out whether you are M or F from your post.

    Do you have a diagnosis?