Alternative schooling

BeaE said:

It was unpleasant to see the mental health of numerous peers deteriorate during high school for various reasons largely related to the school environment. It seems to put several unnecessary stresses on young people. Especially when the knowledge that is taught is largely irrelevant when you leave school.

I agree.

I'd like to see changes in the school system, but it's hard to know what would be beneficial to most students and teachers too, as things can't suit everyone at the same time. 

One thing I would say, is that it'd have been nice to have been treated with more dignity - not being forced to eat lunch on the floor outside in 'the cages' at all times of year, or not having only two working toilets for 500 students, or not being reprimanded for wearing a sock colour other than black etc.

Though, I'm grateful that the school system is probably much better in this regard now than in the past.

It was unpleasant to see the mental health of numerous peers deteriorate during high school for various reasons largely related to the school environment. It seems to put several unnecessary stresses on young people. Especially when the knowledge that is taught is largely irrelevant when you leave school.

I got out of school as soon as possible at 16 after not attending much towards the end, which is a bit of a shame as I loved academics.

In the old days boys and girls were often separated,  the schools I was in had written in stone Boys and Girls on separate entrances. 

Google maps has come to my aid.  The special school buildings still exist.

At primary school, a teacher used to teach the boys to make baskets, but not the girls as he didn't like girls. 

I was hopeless at sport, I can't throw, I fall over my feet when I run, I can't jump, I couldn't do gym, I'd miss a ball more often than I hit it. They didn't let me do javelin or shot put as I was too dangerous to others and myself. Even now when I throw a stick or a ball for Fearn, its as likely to go straight up in the air or in front of my feet, Fearn often looks at me like I'm totally crap, when your own dog thinks you're crap it's really disheartening.

The other thing is I'm not competitive so a lot of sport didn't make sense to me and I just refused to do it at all.

This thread is titled alternative schooling.  And I certainly experienced 'alternative schooling' in my second special school.  Some memories really stick out.

On my first day, the staff discussed if I should be placed with big lads or the small boys.  I was decided that I was a big lad.  One boy ran up to me and asked how old I was,  I answered nine and a half, has started crying because he was ten and still with the small boys.  The whole year I was there he never spoke to me again.

Also on my first day I noticed a skinny girl hiding under the table tennis tables, while others played table tennis.  Again I never heard her speak and when I left she was still hiding under the tables with staff trying to get her out.  No progress.

The basket weaving,  I got good at it.  Many years later I read that basket weaving is a form of therapy in mental hospitals.

The oldest pupils left during the summer.  A few weeks later two boys came back.  The head of the school ordered them out, explaining that they were too old to come here.  They had tears in their eyes as they left.

Just before I left (Aged ten). I was interview by uniformed police about a former staff member.  They wanted to know if I had ever been to her house and explain in my own words exactly what went on there.

Blimey. That's a saga. 

It sounds very stressful especially 

Robert124 said:

That was a disaster because I couldn't understand a word and I didn't attend for weeks at a time because I couldn't cope. 

I had very unconventional schooling.  Some of it was my fault, but I also put the blame on my parents.

My parents were white WWII immigrants who never learnt to understand English and spent their entire lives making excuses.

I started school very late when a neighbour noticed I wasn't in school and they registered me with the local school.  That was a disaster because I couldn't understand a word and I didn't attend for weeks at a time because I couldn't cope.  The school itself was a poorly maintained victorian building with temporary wooden huts which were falling apart.

After a couple of years I was sent to my first 'Special' school for children with language difficulties.   I was the only white kid, there was also one black boy and thirty Asians, all the teachers were Asian.  All I remember is everyone complaining about 'the English kid', what's he doing here?  After a month I got kicked out to another normal school.

This school was also a victorian building, with black Asphalt playing ground and outside toilets.  One afternoon a week we were bused to a playing field for sports.

Then I moved to a middle school, built in the 1950s and it had grass playing fields.  I found the change impossible to cope with.  I lasted a month then refused to go for around six months.  So I ended up at my second special school.

This special school was a sort of place you got sent when you didn't fit in anywhere else.  In the 1970s we had no SEND or EHC plans.  This school was in another awful building.  And as for eduction: I learnt basket weaving, looking after tomato plants in grow bags, playing table tennis.  There were no exams.  Children left that place illiterate.  The school head was a psychiatrist,  I saw his certificate on his office wall.  Other staff were, an ex policewoman, medical people, nurses trainee nurses.  Half the kids arrived by hospital transport.  Mornings were in the school, in the afternoon we were assigned singularly or in small groups to staff members and we went out.   I remember visiting Knaresborough,  Robin hoods Bay, lake district. Lots of local parks.  And often the staff took us to their home for a few hours.  A couple of us dig some intensive digging and gardening at one woman's home.

After a year I was sent back to the normal middle school.

Cinnabar_wing said:

, how would you address that?

With great difficulty.

Cinnabar_wing said:

I think raising it to 18 was a mistake, as school just isn't for everyone, and kids should be able to go to vocational courses, apprenticeships and jobs instead, and those who want to pursue academics are then able to.

I agree.

The local high school is a mixed bag like most others. They were featured on a programming as they ran a class where the kids restored an old vintage tractor that had been sitting about on the head teachers farm. And they are working really ahead with teaching tech too, and I heard they had a forest school class for pupils who weren't engaging in school. 

But there is still bullying, children get basically assaulted by others on the way home, to the extent they then drop out of school, and nothing is done as it's 'just kids'. The SNP's policy not to exclude means disruptive aggressive kids stay in school, harming teachers and other pupils alike. At the moment there is nothing teachers can do about problem pupils, and I've heard teachers saying it's making schools unteachable. (This is opinions of secondary teachers I've heard, I don't have any experience myself).

School only became manageable for me after 16, which was school leaving age at the time, and then suddenly nearly everyone who didn't want to be there left (apart from one unfortunately). I think raising it to 18 was a mistake, as school just isn't for everyone, and kids should be able to go to vocational courses, apprenticeships and jobs instead, and those who want to pursue academics are then able to.

That is a very good point, how would you address that? Perhaps you teach to fact check what you find and teach humility as a skill? 

illustrated.lady said:

I think children in school should be getting outdoors more, not just P.E. but learning about plants, wildlife and trees.

No PE for me thanks!

But yes, I'd have absolutely loved to have got out and learnt about our natural world - a great interest of mine since childhood.

illustrated.lady said:

The most impactful days I remember in high school was when they had outside agencies come in to teach us things, a police officer came to teach us about road safety, someone came to teach us about gang culture and how to stay safe, I still remember the lady who came in to teach us about periods and puberty. Things away from the curriculum that are important and actual life skills. 

Yes, life skills are mentioned a few times in this thread.

I'm a late diagnosed autistic woman in my thirties. I didn't know I was autistic when I was in school, I don't think I had even heard of the term autism. Primary school was fine for the most part. High school was a living nightmare most of the time. The noise, the crowdedness, the constant feeling of other girls observing and commenting on every little thing I ever did, it was like being under a microscope. Also, having to sit through lessons of subjects that I just didn't care about or didn't understand.

I loved English, absolutely adored it and had a good teacher every year of high school. I probably would have enjoyed history and geography but I went to a rough underperforming school and they seemed to have great difficulty holding onto teachers so it was rare to actually have a permanent teacher never mind a good one. 

I think classrooms are far too big and we're cooping children up inside a classroom for six hours a day which just isn't a good strategy for anything. It's funny but about 7 years ago I got a job working in a call centre and the first four weeks was classroom based training and honestly, this group of people in our 20s, 30s and 40s just descended into naughty children and were getting told off by the poor trainer for talking, messing around, not working. I think, because sitting still in a classroom is not good for anyone, never mind just children. 

We need to know how to read and write, we need to know how to basic maths (although I actually think we should be teaching children about money) and we need life skills. I think history is important but hands on history with trips and museums, my primary school was fantstic for that (the romans in Chester, museum for Egyptology). I think children in school should be getting outdoors more, not just P.E. but learning about plants, wildlife and trees. I did see an article recently about a school in the UK which have a therapy puppy which I think is an amazing idea. 

The most impactful days I remember in high school was when they had outside agencies come in to teach us things, a police officer came to teach us about road safety, someone came to teach us about gang culture and how to stay safe, I still remember the lady who came in to teach us about periods and puberty. Things away from the curriculum that are important and actual life skills. 

I like to hope things are a bit different now to when I was in school.  

this is such a good point about school size and the variation between playgrounds and things. I went to a larger school than the one you are describing here but didn't have the problems with playground since we had large fields and things to spread out and give each other space! it's surprising the differences between different schools and areas and what this means. I don't know if this level of detail is represented in things like school ratings or not but they are definitely important considerations for autistic kids. but also, most people it's just which school is the closest will be the only option. 

hi B, yeah this is a very interesting topic! what you are saying about forced education makes me think about if anyone has had the chance to study their autistic interests or had them incorporated into education. I know when I was in university I loved being able to choose the modules and get specific compared to back in school. 

& this is definitely a problem with class sizes. all of this shows how meritocracy is most definitely a myth! I mean imagine a neurotypical in a smaller private school, with their own tutors etc compared with an autistic in a crowded and sensory nightmare of a classroom without the right/ maybe no support. 

trauma of school is hard, I feel for you, I can relate. it's crazy the difference between enjoying to learn vs all the environment and things associated with most schools for autistics. especially when so many of us love learning deeply!!

When you look at the above and bear in mind that autists often have more than one neurodivergent condition, is it any wonder that we often struggle with schooling as these things tend (or tended) to go unnoticed and therefore undiagnosed and might be seen as something else eg. learning difficulties or 'not trying hard enough'.

I believe that I have OCD, dyspraxia, anxiety, auditory processing disorder and dyscalculia.  Enough to make school a struggle.

Cinnabar_wing said:

If you rely on memory alone like they teach you in exams, then you are more likely to have out-of-date-knowledge and not listen to experts.

I am finding the internet a bit of a problem in that regard today because as you can look things up, it seems to me to lead to complacency and a rather 'know it all' attitude in some people.

TheCatWoman said:

PE

I would have liked that to be optional even when young - I deeply hated gym + sports etc partly because I was undiagnosed as acutely short sighted so I was as likely to run into sports equipment as jump over it.