The evolution of the human brain linked to regulation of autism-linked genes

A more digestible version on YouTube: www.youtube.com/watch

So can we call NT's a bunch of monkey's?

Interesting, many of us have said that without us tinkering away with things we'd never have made it out of caves, maybe this study shows some truth in this feeling?

I'm glad it shows that evolution and not vaccines or any others such nonsense is the "cause" of autism

TheCatWoman said:

So can we call NT's a bunch of monkey's?

Martin said:

Homo sapientissimus, perhaps?

Jokes aside, if I've understood correctly, I fear this is drifting away from what the paper actually says.

It doesn't suggest that autistic people are “more evolved” than allistic people, or that autism itself was selected because it was superior.

It makes a different point entirely: some gene-expression changes in the human lineage (compared with other apes) might have been favoured overall, while also increasing vulnerability to autism as a by-product.

In other words, it's not saying that evolution "chose" or "favoured" autism, or that being autistic is better than not being autistic. The discussion perhaps also risks sliding into autistic- and/or Aspie-supremacy territory. 

By contrast, ScienceDaily explained it like this when reporting on the research:

"The findings suggest autism is part of the trade-off that made humans so cognitively advanced"

And, in the title, "Autism may be the price of human intelligence"

ScienceDaily - Autism may be price of human intelligence

Bunny said:

None of the traits associated with autism are exclusive to autistic people. They also exist across the allistic (non-autistic) population, sometimes to marked degrees. 

However, the people with the highest concentrations of autistic-associated alleles are autistic. If you remove autistic people from the gene-pool then the incidence of any 'useful' autism-related alleles will be reduced.

Transport an autistic person without intellectual disability to a hunter gatherer band or even a small, premodern agricultural village, then the disabling aspects that modern life impose on autistic people largely disappear. When you have known everyone you are likely to come into contact with from childhood, communication difficulties are minimised. There are no huge crowds, no intrusive loud noises, no bright flashing lights, unpleasant environmental stimuli are also minimal.

Cinnabar_wing said:

I also think it runs the risk of dictating how people communicate to each

Yes!

Cinnabar_wing said:

When we start only communicating for ai to read, and not to joke with other fellow humans, than have we lost humanity. 

Yes!

Bunny said:

It's also indexed by search engines, and its content can end up informing AI-generated summaries and answers about autism.

I appreciate this might end up being a by-product of an open forum, but I for one don't post for ai content sake, I post as a human connecting to other humans. When we start only communicating for ai to read, and not to joke with other fellow humans, than have we lost humanity. 

And if ai is basing knowledge on people's random opinions, it would expose the fallacy of ai.

I also think it runs the risk of dictating how people communicate to each. Clarity is important, but can be reserved for scientific papers rather than discussion forums. It's worse when podcasters and their ilk masquerade opinions as facts. I think that is far more dangerous as it's one sided. Here at least you can ask for clarity if you need it.

Bunny said:

Martin said:

This does not exclude some, perhaps many, autistic traits having been advantageous to our ancestors. After all autistics are still around and more are being born today.

I feel this needs some care, too. None of the traits associated with autism are exclusive to autistic people. They also exist across the allistic (non-autistic) population, sometimes to marked degrees

My understanding of this is that Martin is discussing possibilities, because the research doesn’t exclude autistic traits having been advantageous so it is a possibility. He is not saying that the research shows autistic traits were advantageous. 

TheCatWoman said:

Informed speculation allows us to think through how what we find in material culture could have been used and to think of different things

I enjoy discussing possibilities and proposed theories (especially when it’s material culture). It’s an exciting thing to do and is how societies and communities grow and develop. I would hate considered discussion such as this to be suppressed here.

The trouble with sticking purely to facts and what we can substantiate is that it stops us from useful speculation as well as the less useful or downright prejudicial. With something like Autism being viewed differently in different cultures we actually have no idea of how autism was seen in the prehistoric world or even parts of it, prehistoric peoples would have had a variety of cultural practicies, just a modern people do.

Informed speculation allows us to think through how what we find in material culture could have been used and to think of different things. For example, a lot of sticks were dug up at one site with moon calendar markings on them, every 28th day there was a notch carved over a mark, this puzzled archaelogists until a woman suggested that it could have been made and used by a woman to keep track of her menstral cycles. This is useful specualtion, in truth we will never know exactly what they were used for or how, but this piece of female cultural knowege proved crucial in how we think about things like gender in the prehistoric world. Things like gender and maybe what we would now call mental health problems are thought to be social constructs, different societies think differently about them.

The trouble with sticking purely to facts and what we can substantiate is that it stops us from useful speculation as well as the less useful or downright prejudicial. With something like Autism being viewed differently in different cultures we actually have no idea of how autism was seen in the prehistoric world or even parts of it, prehistoric peoples would have had a variety of cultural practicies, just a modern people do.

Informed speculation allows us to think through how what we find in material culture could have been used and to think of different things. For example, a lot of sticks were dug up at one site with moon calendar markings on them, every 28th day there was a notch carved over a mark, this puzzled archaelogists until a woman suggested that it could have been made and used by a woman to keep track of her menstral cycles. This is useful specualtion, in truth we will never know exactly what they were used for or how, but this piece of female cultural knowege proved crucial in how we think about things like gender in the prehistoric world. Things like gender and maybe what we would now call mental health problems are thought to be social constructs, different societies think differently about them.

Bunny said:

Martin said:

This does not exclude some, perhaps many, autistic traits having been advantageous to our ancestors. After all autistics are still around and more are being born today.

I feel this needs some care, too. None of the traits associated with autism are exclusive to autistic people. They also exist across the allistic (non-autistic) population, sometimes to marked degrees

My understanding of this is that Martin is discussing possibilities, because the research doesn’t exclude autistic traits having been advantageous so it is a possibility. He is not saying that the research shows autistic traits were advantageous. 

TheCatWoman said:

Informed speculation allows us to think through how what we find in material culture could have been used and to think of different things

I enjoy discussing possibilities and proposed theories (especially when it’s material culture). It’s an exciting thing to do and is how societies and communities grow and develop. I would hate considered discussion such as this to be suppressed here.