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Can you believe in God without seeing evidence of a God theory of mind autism and spirituality

RachelO

Hi everyone, with the Theory of Mind theory that dominated the subject oft autism and religion, newer research is out there shows that Autistic people can have a different experience of religion which is more spiritual.  The question is do you feel you need to see God or see/sense the presence of God in order to believe in a faith? It has been written before with some neurodiverse autistic people that they struggle to believe in a God because they need to see evidence of this reality before they believe because of a lack of abstract thinking and poor mentalizing abilites. I wonder how this pertains to your life and if it is true at all for you. Feel free to post any research on this subject of superfluity and autism or theory of mind and religion and autism do add as well.

If you do have a faith, take care of yourself and try and not become overwhelmed and have other things going on with interests or family and friends to keep a balanced life.

This will help further clarify this issue-

"Theory of mind (ToM) and abstract thinking are intertwined cognitive abilities allowing humans to understand intangible concepts, emotions, and others' mental states, going beyond concrete, immediate reality."


I have highlighted the area that people can struggle to conceive a God as they have a problem going beyond concrete immediate reality and cannot imagine this as well due to a lack of abstract thinking and lack of imagination.

A few years ago I read when I was looking at some research that some people with autism say they cannot believe in a God without seeing evidence of God in some way because of a need for logical explanations in life. Some autistics have a need to see evidence/feel the presence of God in order to believe in a God as they have logical thinking because of their autism and they say that they need to see God or evidence of a creator before they will believe in a God. They may have literal thinking and may struggle with this with autism because they may have a difficulty with abstract thinking and may struggle to conceive a reality of there being a God in their minds.

I read these debates and thought about it and knew that in my life through the Holy Spirit in my faith which is Christian that God had allowed me to see that he was there clearly through the Holy Spirit's presence in my life. Of course I had my faith first for some time before God showed me this, but he did after some time and it has helped to support me in life. It helped to also to strengthen my faith. I am diagnosed with autism and have level 2 sensory needs which is moderate and sometimes it seems like level 3 which God has helped me manage in life and support me through the Holy Spirit With my faith you can have a spiritual experience as well. If anybody is interested in knowing how I can post on that later.

There is research out there today by lecturers that state that autistics can have a different way of doing spirituality and go further than the theory of mind arguments. Some autistics may be more sensory and have deep spiritual rich experiences through this.

Not everybody may be sensory, but I think God makes everybody equipped to cope in life.

Here is some research on the subject on how autistics can have more spiritual experiences of their faith. This can extend to all things like Christanity, ghosts, paranormal etc.

Research by Ingela Visuri in 2018 found that autistics have increased somasensory perceptions which lead to increased supernatural experiences.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/2153599X.2018.1548374

“non-autistic group participants, and current research suggests that unusual somatosensory experiences are prevalent in the autistic population. Attribution of invisible agency is understood as a sense-making coping strategy, and it is argued that esoteric content in fantasy literature, movies and computer games explain why these young adults prefer to attribute agency to ghosts, spirits and demons, rather than god(s). The study thereby extends and challenges the study of autism and religiosity by exploring the intersection between autistic embodiment and encultured cognition.”

More research later in Autism and Religion in 2023 found the below-

“We dispute the assumption that individuals with ASD are inherently less religious and spiritual than the neurotypical population. Religiosity is possibly expressed differently in ASD with unique spiritual experiences and beliefs (“gifted, visionary, and truth-seeker”).
Autism and Religion - PMC

I read one story before of a young man who was autistic who says that he cannot see God, perhaps he was not very sensory-but however still believes in God. Autism doesn't stop me believing in a God I can’t see

I saw another article by an academic commenting on Ingela Visuri's work and I found it interesting.

The case of High functioning Autism" & spirituality

 Dr. Persinger showed that a sense of "presence" of other beings by people seems to be generated to an extent by the temporal lobe, as I recall.

I have done some research into neuroscience and without question the human brain is incredibly complex, however the general thrust that the peculiar physiology of autistics would likely generate peculiar spiritual experiences would appear to be a reasonable proposition. Ingela Visuri, as a result of her intensive study of spirituality in high functioning autistics stated that "The results also indicate that distress triggers the participants to seek out supernatural ascriptions and invisible relations." In reviewing types of spirituality "distress" appears to be a cause in many different scenarios of spirituality such as the processes of grieving, recovering addicts, depression, as well as many others very likely. Tapping into unconscious spiritual processes which most likely are deeply embedded in the human unconscious, makes a lot of sense.

https://works.hcommons.org/records/vsmgh-ch441#description-heading

Varieties of Supernatural Experience: the Case of High-Functioning Autism


The following research critiques traditional "theory of mind" (ToM) models, which suggest that autistic individuals cannot grasp spiritual concepts, proposing instead that they experience unique, profound spiritual lives and that religious communities must accommodate different cognitive styles.

https://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/docs/default-source/members/sigs/spirituality-spsig/resources/spirituality-special-interest-group-publications-quinton-deeley-cognitive-style-spirituality-and-religious-understanding.pdf?sfvrsn=178e931_2

Parents

  • I have no research to show you but I could point you to a priest who speaks about his concrete relationship with God. 

    I think if you want to know God - then ask and He will let you know Him. He made all of us whether we believe that or not, or how we see Him or perceive Him it is so.  He knows how to communicate with us. Some of us need concrete sensual encounters to believe and others not. All who need them, will be weaned off them as they are the food of babies - the milk of the spiritual life. We must walk in faith and God can lead us. I was one who needed the sensual touch of God in the start of my spiritual journey though He did give me faith first. He gave me sensual experiences in the start, but as I say and St Paul before me these are the milk of the spiritual life and we should never seek them because they can so very very easily be deceptive and of the enemy or our own creation. We must merely accept what God gives or doesn't give. The higher way is always to walk by faith. 

    I think autistics can do this as well as any other. We believe many science experiments and laws we read about but never test or examine personally (it would be impossible to do every experiment and take nothing on faith) - this is faith - natural faith yes, but faith nevertheless. We believe in laws of nature, all the things we learn on our special interests, etc We do not test or measure or examine these things ourselves - is that really the height of an elephant? the speed a cheetah runs? etc. so if we can take these things on natural faith with seeing them for ourselves. I can't see any reason why we could not believe God exists when the same evidence is present. If you look for it, evidence of God is everywhere and you cannot help be see it - hear it - smell it - touch it. But you must let yourself. God is in some sense, like the wind - you cannot see the wind, but it's effects can be seen, heard and even smelt and even though you cannot hold the wind or touch it... you know when it is blowing across your face... You do not believe you know. It can be the same with God.  If you look with the eyes of faith - ask for them and He will give them to you - then you will not be able to unsee it - this is my experience. God is everywhere - our Creator, Our Father

  • in reply to DaughteroftheKing

    Daughteroftheking, that was an interesting post. Jesus said that we should not depend on looking for signs and wonders. He also said not to rely on things like visions or messages. However, in the Bible there are 8 spiritual gifts in Corinthians and the believer is given these freely which contains the gift of the Holy Spirit which many get at baptism. Now, you can ask for the Holy Spirit as John 16 states and I never have. I was baptised and was given the gifts freely. I have one of the gifts which allows me to be freely sent visions. I got this at 17. They are truthful. I don't rely on them to get me to eternal life. The same applies to everybody and and they need to keep their heads down and be themselves and do the best you can, but be thankful for whatever the Holy Spirit sends you in truth. I have a moderate to severe sensory needs and they have supported me with this when I became overwhelmed and it was not my fault and it was clear it was them. Also, I have felt their prescence in church when struggling they came by to support me. That was down to a genuine need and not me looking. Other people have gifts to and there is somebody  who is a young man who is a non verbal autistic. It seems like he has a gift and writes words of inspiration and he set up a facebook page sharing this with others. Jesus asked us to use our spiritual gifts and not to put the light under the table and having them more enriched if sensory is a good thing. Mine are active when not in use and it is comforting just to see it and Jesus said he will send us a comforter and we can be comforted in different ways. I find mine comforting. I didn't stress this in my first post to see if anyone had any thoughts themselves and then to follow my thoughts. If they send me something they do it freely and  I rely on faith as well, but the spiritual gifts can be helpful to show you that God exists. Also, Jesus asked people to look for him and people have said there is a moment he will  confirm your faith for you and you don't need to be sensory to see this I imagine.

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  • in reply to DaughteroftheKing

    Daughteroftheking, that was an interesting post. Jesus said that we should not depend on looking for signs and wonders. He also said not to rely on things like visions or messages. However, in the Bible there are 8 spiritual gifts in Corinthians and the believer is given these freely which contains the gift of the Holy Spirit which many get at baptism. Now, you can ask for the Holy Spirit as John 16 states and I never have. I was baptised and was given the gifts freely. I have one of the gifts which allows me to be freely sent visions. I got this at 17. They are truthful. I don't rely on them to get me to eternal life. The same applies to everybody and and they need to keep their heads down and be themselves and do the best you can, but be thankful for whatever the Holy Spirit sends you in truth. I have a moderate to severe sensory needs and they have supported me with this when I became overwhelmed and it was not my fault and it was clear it was them. Also, I have felt their prescence in church when struggling they came by to support me. That was down to a genuine need and not me looking. Other people have gifts to and there is somebody  who is a young man who is a non verbal autistic. It seems like he has a gift and writes words of inspiration and he set up a facebook page sharing this with others. Jesus asked us to use our spiritual gifts and not to put the light under the table and having them more enriched if sensory is a good thing. Mine are active when not in use and it is comforting just to see it and Jesus said he will send us a comforter and we can be comforted in different ways. I find mine comforting. I didn't stress this in my first post to see if anyone had any thoughts themselves and then to follow my thoughts. If they send me something they do it freely and  I rely on faith as well, but the spiritual gifts can be helpful to show you that God exists. Also, Jesus asked people to look for him and people have said there is a moment he will  confirm your faith for you and you don't need to be sensory to see this I imagine.

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