Can you believe in God without seeing evidence of a God theory of mind autism and spirituality

Hi everyone, with the Theory of Mind theory that dominated the subject oft autism and religion, newer research is out there shows that Autistic people can have a different experience of religion which is more spiritual.  The question is do you feel you need to see God or see/sense the presence of God in order to believe in a faith? It has been written before with some neurodiverse autistic people that they struggle to believe in a God because they need to see evidence of this reality before they believe because of a lack of abstract thinking and poor mentalizing abilites. I wonder how this pertains to your life and if it is true at all for you. Feel free to post any research on this subject of superfluity and autism or theory of mind and religion and autism do add as well.

If you do have a faith, take care of yourself and try and not become overwhelmed and have other things going on with interests or family and friends to keep a balanced life.

This will help further clarify this issue-

"Theory of mind (ToM) and abstract thinking are intertwined cognitive abilities allowing humans to understand intangible concepts, emotions, and others' mental states, going beyond concrete, immediate reality."


I have highlighted the area that people can struggle to conceive a God as they have a problem going beyond concrete immediate reality and cannot imagine this as well due to a lack of abstract thinking and lack of imagination.

A few years ago I read when I was looking at some research that some people with autism say they cannot believe in a God without seeing evidence of God in some way because of a need for logical explanations in life. Some autistics have a need to see evidence/feel the presence of God in order to believe in a God as they have logical thinking because of their autism and they say that they need to see God or evidence of a creator before they will believe in a God. They may have literal thinking and may struggle with this with autism because they may have a difficulty with abstract thinking and may struggle to conceive a reality of there being a God in their minds.

I read these debates and thought about it and knew that in my life through the Holy Spirit in my faith which is Christian that God had allowed me to see that he was there clearly through the Holy Spirit's presence in my life. Of course I had my faith first for some time before God showed me this, but he did after some time and it has helped to support me in life. It helped to also to strengthen my faith. I am diagnosed with autism and have level 2 sensory needs which is moderate and sometimes it seems like level 3 which God has helped me manage in life and support me through the Holy Spirit With my faith you can have a spiritual experience as well. If anybody is interested in knowing how I can post on that later.

There is research out there today by lecturers that state that autistics can have a different way of doing spirituality and go further than the theory of mind arguments. Some autistics may be more sensory and have deep spiritual rich experiences through this.

Not everybody may be sensory, but I think God makes everybody equipped to cope in life.

Here is some research on the subject on how autistics can have more spiritual experiences of their faith. This can extend to all things like Christanity, ghosts, paranormal etc.

Research by Ingela Visuri in 2018 found that autistics have increased somasensory perceptions which lead to increased supernatural experiences.

https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/2153599X.2018.1548374

“non-autistic group participants, and current research suggests that unusual somatosensory experiences are prevalent in the autistic population. Attribution of invisible agency is understood as a sense-making coping strategy, and it is argued that esoteric content in fantasy literature, movies and computer games explain why these young adults prefer to attribute agency to ghosts, spirits and demons, rather than god(s). The study thereby extends and challenges the study of autism and religiosity by exploring the intersection between autistic embodiment and encultured cognition.”

More research later in Autism and Religion in 2023 found the below-

“We dispute the assumption that individuals with ASD are inherently less religious and spiritual than the neurotypical population. Religiosity is possibly expressed differently in ASD with unique spiritual experiences and beliefs (“gifted, visionary, and truth-seeker”).
Autism and Religion - PMC

I read one story before of a young man who was autistic who says that he cannot see God, perhaps he was not very sensory-but however still believes in God. Autism doesn't stop me believing in a God I can’t see

I saw another article by an academic commenting on Ingela Visuri's work and I found it interesting.

The case of High functioning Autism" & spirituality

 Dr. Persinger showed that a sense of "presence" of other beings by people seems to be generated to an extent by the temporal lobe, as I recall.

I have done some research into neuroscience and without question the human brain is incredibly complex, however the general thrust that the peculiar physiology of autistics would likely generate peculiar spiritual experiences would appear to be a reasonable proposition. Ingela Visuri, as a result of her intensive study of spirituality in high functioning autistics stated that "The results also indicate that distress triggers the participants to seek out supernatural ascriptions and invisible relations." In reviewing types of spirituality "distress" appears to be a cause in many different scenarios of spirituality such as the processes of grieving, recovering addicts, depression, as well as many others very likely. Tapping into unconscious spiritual processes which most likely are deeply embedded in the human unconscious, makes a lot of sense.

https://works.hcommons.org/records/vsmgh-ch441#description-heading

Varieties of Supernatural Experience: the Case of High-Functioning Autism


The following research critiques traditional "theory of mind" (ToM) models, which suggest that autistic individuals cannot grasp spiritual concepts, proposing instead that they experience unique, profound spiritual lives and that religious communities must accommodate different cognitive styles.

https://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/docs/default-source/members/sigs/spirituality-spsig/resources/spirituality-special-interest-group-publications-quinton-deeley-cognitive-style-spirituality-and-religious-understanding.pdf?sfvrsn=178e931_2

Parents
  • Sorry but TLDR

    As to the question, these are my observations in a very ASD way. I cannot "believe" in anything, especially a so called god. My thinking is almost entirely binary, yes/no black/white. This quote from Robert Heinlein expresses it very well.for me.

    A religion is sometimes a source of happiness and I would not deprive anyone of happiness. But it is a comfort appropriate for the weak, not for the strong.

    The great trouble with religion any religion is that a religionist, having accepted certain propositions by faith, cannot thereafter judge those propositions by evidence. One may bask at the warm fire of faith or choose to live in the bleak uncertainty of reason but one cannot have both,

    In terms of personal experience, my wife has been struck down with vascular dementia just when we were about to have our happy ever after. Taking that into account I consider that if there is a god who is all omnipotent then he (ever noticed how god is always a he) is a sadistic psychopath. 

    But there is definitely order in the universe. As to life after death, again an oxymoron. Our brains are living electro-biological computers without any permanent data storage like a memory chip that doesn’t loose data when there is no power. Once the chemistry that generates the electricity stops, everything goes just like the light does when you turn off the switch.

    Of course I will change my mind is someone can present me with evidence.

Reply
  • Sorry but TLDR

    As to the question, these are my observations in a very ASD way. I cannot "believe" in anything, especially a so called god. My thinking is almost entirely binary, yes/no black/white. This quote from Robert Heinlein expresses it very well.for me.

    A religion is sometimes a source of happiness and I would not deprive anyone of happiness. But it is a comfort appropriate for the weak, not for the strong.

    The great trouble with religion any religion is that a religionist, having accepted certain propositions by faith, cannot thereafter judge those propositions by evidence. One may bask at the warm fire of faith or choose to live in the bleak uncertainty of reason but one cannot have both,

    In terms of personal experience, my wife has been struck down with vascular dementia just when we were about to have our happy ever after. Taking that into account I consider that if there is a god who is all omnipotent then he (ever noticed how god is always a he) is a sadistic psychopath. 

    But there is definitely order in the universe. As to life after death, again an oxymoron. Our brains are living electro-biological computers without any permanent data storage like a memory chip that doesn’t loose data when there is no power. Once the chemistry that generates the electricity stops, everything goes just like the light does when you turn off the switch.

    Of course I will change my mind is someone can present me with evidence.

Children
  • I am not here to try and get you to change your mind, as you need to determine that yourself. I am sorry that your wife is suffering from vascular dementia. What I write should apply to all faiths is that illness can happen as a part and course of life and it is not the fault of God. Myself, I have had sickness and never blamed it on God.  I have used my faith to try and cope with my situation though. Human life can be frail, but with some faiths they tend to teach that after life, that there will not be anymore illness in a new body.  If your wife has a faith, may be letting them speak to a faith leader if they are able, might help them to come to terms with what they are experiencing.

    This thought is reflected in this article to-

    The end of life is the closing earthly chapter, often shared with family members, a chaplain, parish pastor, or another spiritual care provider assisting the dying Christian with compassionate and significant conversations.”

    https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-031-29923-0_13