Diversities and divergence's

I dislike crime fiction, I always feel that I'm being manipulated rather too obviously. I cannot stand Dickens, the worst sort of Victorian maudlin sentimentality and the characters' names, Mr Fezziwig! I rather like Anthony Trollope and George Eliot. I adore Robert Louis Stevenson, and have done since reading 'Treasure Island' at around seven years of age. "The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there," as L. P. Hartley wrote. I find the past with its different customs and manners interesting, especially in contrast to the basic motivations of people, which remain constant.

Personally I can't be doing with classic literature, anything being described as that will put me off even trying to read it. I can't be doing with Dicken's, Bronte, Austen, Hardy or any of them, I dont' understand them and find them intensely irritating, I don't relate at all. All I see is other ways of being marginalised and am glad I wasn't born then, rules for everything, I think they would of shut me up in Bedlam for being unable to follow them.

But give me a police procecural and I'm happy, I can understand the motivations and what its about, the characters I find more relatable, both criminals and cops.

I'm a Jane Austen fan, my favourite Austen book being 'Persuasion'. I enjoy all sorts of literature, I have even read 'Finnigans Wake'. I have found that literature has enabled me to investigate human relationships in greater safety than real life affords. It provides a useful guide to deciphering society. 

In some ways the social milieu Austen writes about, upper middle class Late Georgian England, is more autism friendly than today. Social interactions are governed by strict rules, as is courtship, even dancing is exactly prescribed.

TheCatWoman said:

I use ND as an umbrella term as woe betide me if I miss someone out, like ADHD or something

Did something happen to make you feel you can’t talk about being autistic or referencing only autistic people on this forum? 

TheCatWoman said in a post below: ArchaeC, I read somewhere or other that ND women and girls are more likely to read and enjoy English Literature, such as Jane Austin, I can' tremember where I read it, but it was during some of my researches into ND women. 

I do agree that lots of ND people are into STEM subjects, but then everybody seems to be being pushed in that direction, but ND people being good at STEM subjects could also be a way of type casting ND people, what of those of us who aren't? What of those of us who are more into the Humanities? I think it's leading to a situation where technology is being shunted onto us, because thats what is expected, we're supposed to shun human contact, so shoving tech at us makes governments seem like their doing something, regardless of whether it's appropriate or wanted or if we know how to use it.

I supose what I mean by typecast is that the most common traits are picked up on and catered for at the expense of the less common, this will lead to questions about how to catagorise us and I believe will cause more division and bigger alphabets of acronyms following us about, an even biger need to explain ourselves. For example, I was told that I couldn't be dyslexic because I'm terrible at maths and everyone who struggles with words is good at maths as a sort of compensatory thing.

Black and white thinking is supposed to be an ND trait, what happens to those who don't think that way, are we not ND, are we a different kind of ND all of our own.? 

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I think I read somewhere that it used to be thought autistic people wouldn’t read novels for enjoyment, but that some autistic girls and women have shown this not to be the case. It’s interesting about Jane Austin. I enjoyed Pride and Prejudice and some of her other novels a long time ago. 

I don’t believe that the humanities will be done away with, so people who feel they wish to pursue those subjects will always have options, reduced though they may be. 

Regarding black and white thinking and people such as yourself, the ND movement has been a response to the very discriminatory things you outline. Ignorance and prejudice will always be with us, but I do believe there is wider acceptance of the diverse nature of dyslexia, autism, ADHD etc. 

ArchaeC, I read somewhere or other that ND women and girls are more likely to read and enjoy English Literature, such as Jane Austin, I can' tremember where I read it, but it was during some of my researches into ND women. 

I do agree that lots of ND people are into STEM subjects, but then everybody seems to be being pushed in that direction, but ND people being good at STEM subjects could also be a way of type casting ND people, what of those of us who aren't? What of those of us who are more into the Humanities? I think it's leading to a situation where technology is being shunted onto us, because thats what is expected, we're supposed to shun human contact, so shoving tech at us makes governments seem like their doing something, regardless of whether it's appropriate or wanted or if we know how to use it.

I supose what I mean by typecast is that the most common traits are picked up on and catered for at the expense of the less common, this will lead to questions about how to catagorise us and I believe will cause more division and bigger alphabets of acronyms following us about, an even biger need to explain ourselves. For eample, I was told that I couldn't be dyslexic because I'm terrible at maths and everyone who struggles with words is good at maths as a sort of compensatory thing.

Black and white thinking is supposed to be an ND trait, what happens to those who don't think that way, are we not ND, are we a different kind of ND all of our own.? 

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I think you've only got to look at posts on here to see just how imaginative and creative many of us are. I find it interesting tht you say you do your best thinking whilst doing something else, I do too, for me it's having my hands busy doing things like washing up or peeling potatoes that I can do on autopilot, its like it gives the creative part of my brain free reign to do it's thing. 

I'm not a story teller, an artist or musician, but I'm a creative cook and gardener and I think a bit differently about history too, my lecturers always said they left my essays until last, because they enjoyed the way I write and some of the interpretations, ideas and conclusions I came too.

TheCatWoman said:

one thing that puzzles me is English Literature, ND women are supposed to really enjoy English literature, like Jane Austen

I haven’t heard that. Do you mean most or some women with dyslexia, or ADHD, or ASD, or OCD etc., enjoy English Literature? I have read that the perception is that autistic people are more into STEM subjects, but that might have been from the time when it was mostly males who were diagnosed. I have also also read about some autistic women enjoying English Literature, although I don’t recall Jane Austin being mentioned in that context. I imagine that dyslexic women could struggle to read, but would that mean they couldn’t enjoy reading Jane Austin or anything else? Would they be restricted to reading only short pieces of texts or perhaps they listen to the audio books? Have there been studies?

Girls are around twice as likely as boys to study ‘A’ level English Literature, so presumably they enjoy it, but the figures don’t account for ND.

TheCatWoman said:

With the greater awareness of ND, are we in danger of becoming typecast and if we diverge to much or in unexpected ways, will we become something else, a whole new diagnostic things just for us?

I mightn’t have grasped what you mean. Can you elaborate please? If you are referring to autistic people, we are already typecast and it will continue, which is why it is important that the media is balanced when highlighting autism. The positive portrayal of Cat Burns who is autistic and ADHD, in the TV programme Traitors set a good example.

Growing up, I was more into animals than people, I wasn’t particularly domesticated and I was a tomboy. I failed most things at school, married in my 30s because it was expected, studied at university, divorced, more study and ended up being considered a high achiever in my chosen subject. I look for evidence when reading and listening to media reports and news and I am not taken in by conspiracy theories. Why on earth should I believe nonsense from unknown sources on social media when there is evidence from multiple different sources illustrating why the conspiracy isn’t genuine.

‘Diversities and divergences’ aren’t medically diagnosed, they are social constructs. It is likely that the DSM diagnostic criteria for autism will be revised at some stage. The medical people are listening more to autistic people and they are learning more of our experiences than they used to. I would hope that the people who set the criteria for autism would be listening to us too. 

I think it was nervous laughter. It was very odd at the time, but my reaction to the congregation must have seemed odd too for not accepting it as it was.

pietro_21 said:

I only thought about it again recently. Weddings are serious sign your life away I. Front of God situations not for laughing. The emotions in the air make no sense to me.

It was a high pressure situation in a way for the groom which is probably why he was using the defence mechanism of laughing, It is explained here:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/evolution-the-self/202108/why-we-laugh-when-were-nervous

Nervous laughter can be viewed as a defense mechanism subconsciously employed to protect one from feeling overwhelmed with anxiety.

It is quite common amongst NTs

I went to a wedding a few years ago. The bride and groom were onstage being betrothed. The groom kept laughing which seemed strange to me. To the extent that I quite loudly and abruptly out of nowhere said ‘Why is he laughing?,’. I was told he was nervous. But looking back that might have seemed like a nd trait. I only thought about it again recently. Weddings are serious sign your life away I. Front of God situations not for laughing. The emotions in the air make no sense to me. To everyone else I must have seemed strange for me not to be enjoying the moment like them, I suppose there is a part of me that is still concern about what people think even if I don’t or can never fully comprehend that.

As I was just saying on another thread, Autism is often seen and indeed on the self check forms as having no imagination. For me this has always been one of my greatest strengths and was a key reason I initially didn't think I could be autistic.

I was credited as being a natural storyteller in university, but all my best ideas have come when I doing something else and can think things over in my own time. I can't do brainstorming, and this has been problematic in work as allistics expect you to be able to do this in meetings. I always felt it was unfair to be expected to be creative when everyone is shouting things out, and it's so noisy. Now I know why I found it difficult. My ideas would always come after, later on when I had a chance to think about it, but it was too late by then. It's a shame to think I never stood a chance in these meetings.

And as for fiction, it's sci fi and fantasy for me!

(I _think_ this is relevant to the post, but in the middle I had to listen to 10 minutes about the band Lincoln Parks various logos and names from my 11 year old as it's his latest SI. It is difficult to try keep my thoughts on hold while listening to others)

I'm meaning all of it, I an only speak from my experience of being autistic, semi synesthesia and dyslexic.

I use ND as an umbrella term as woe betide me if I miss someone out, like ADHD or something.

When you say 'ND' do mean autistic as you appear to be describing autism rather the other conditions under the ND umbrella?