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Down a rabbit hole. Perseveration, perseverance and meditation.

Phased

I have come to understand those nasty thought loops I and others like me can get caught up in as being called "perseveration".

I now think of them as being like the "evil twin" of the more useful trait of perseverance.

I have long been using meditation to get a hang of what is going on in my mind - regretfully a bit of a side effect has been that it has from time to time actually increased the "stuckness" in a thought loop.  This being especially the case when more stressed or depressed.  That said if used in a way to help reduce anxiety it seems to be helpful.

Google AI suggests on this topic:

"Meditation, especially mindfulness-based practices, can help overcome perseveration by training the mind to disengage from repetitive thoughts, strengthen executive functions, and cultivate a non-judgmental awareness that creates a different relationship with intrusive thoughts. Techniques like focused-attention meditation train the brain to redirect attention, while open-monitoring meditation promotes insight and helps de-activate the "default mode network" linked to repetitive thinking. Regular practice leads to increased attentional stability and can reduce the power of negative thoughts."

Thoughts and experiences from others about this?

No bottles with "drink me" on them or mushrooms consumed in the production of this post - would be especially great if Alice and the White Rabbit respond :-) 

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  • Phased said:
    training the mind to disengage from repetitive thoughts, strengthen executive functions, and cultivate a non-judgmental awareness that creates a different relationship with intrusive thoughts

    The "non-judgemental" bit is something I'm working on and it is very helpful. Stimming and SPINs help with the "disengage" bit, somewhat. The "strengthen" bit is so far beyond my AuDHD brain it's not even funny.

    I remember reading about the default mode network (DMN) last year. IIRC, when non-ADHD brains focus on a task, they switch from the DMN to the task-positive network (TPN), their inner monologue shuts up, and they can just get on with it. I never knew that was possible. I've certainly never experienced it. My inner monologue (DMN) is normally chattering away randomly while I'm trying to ... SQUIRREL! ... work. However, when I'm hyperfocused, it's constantly talking me through the task, picking out all the little details and doing some cheer-leading, which is great, but I can't turn that on at will for a given task.

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  • Phased said:
    training the mind to disengage from repetitive thoughts, strengthen executive functions, and cultivate a non-judgmental awareness that creates a different relationship with intrusive thoughts

    The "non-judgemental" bit is something I'm working on and it is very helpful. Stimming and SPINs help with the "disengage" bit, somewhat. The "strengthen" bit is so far beyond my AuDHD brain it's not even funny.

    I remember reading about the default mode network (DMN) last year. IIRC, when non-ADHD brains focus on a task, they switch from the DMN to the task-positive network (TPN), their inner monologue shuts up, and they can just get on with it. I never knew that was possible. I've certainly never experienced it. My inner monologue (DMN) is normally chattering away randomly while I'm trying to ... SQUIRREL! ... work. However, when I'm hyperfocused, it's constantly talking me through the task, picking out all the little details and doing some cheer-leading, which is great, but I can't turn that on at will for a given task.

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  • in reply to Damojo

    Hi  wroye a reply and didn't press the submit button (doh!!!)

    Oh yes, what you've written is really familiar to me too :-)

    Thanks for the insight re: DMN to TPN shifts.

    You've helped me appreciate how personally I entertain (side track in reality) my inner monologue by feeding it podacsts while performing tasks - the inner monologue then seems to be suppressed enough so that it is reduced to occasional more important comments and observations.

    There is a balance between distraction and focus - sometimes when I'm really "on task" the attention to the podcast is lost.  Sometimes when the podcast is just too interesting then I'm off task and onto that instead.    What this seems to be in be scientific jargon: "Attentional scope and endogenous attention".  (woooooeeeey get me using them big words :-)

    The idea being that by practicing different types of meditation being that it is possible to use it for helping AuDHD brains be a bit more under, to coin a phrase, "be more under constructive conscious control".

    hehe like advanced driving techniques after learning to drive...  So how and where can one learn about/to do this is where I'm at myself at the moment. 

    I guess that because I've seen a glimpse of a possibility that it works I am chasing it down... 

    Quite an old article here about this:  Frontiers | Focused attention, open monitoring and loving kindness meditation: effects on attention, conflict monitoring, and creativity – A review