Flag waving

It seems that the English flag is being used again as a symbol of nationalism, being paraded around the streets by those wanting rid of asylum seekers and placed in gardens.

Do you feel comfortable with it? I don't, for me it's tainted by Neo Nazi's and other fascists, or for football.

In Britain we've never had a habit of flag use and worship like some other countries, mostly seen in America and I wouldn't like us to acquire the habit. 

Am I the only one to find it ironic that St George was a Turk? He supplanted St Edmund as Englands national saint on a whim of Richard the Lionheart, we have lots of native saints to choose from, St Alban, St Edward, St Thomas A'Becket, St Hilda, and so many more often more obscure ones like St Petroc or St Willibrord.

I also feel uncomfortable that as a non Christian the flag is a blatently Christian religious symbol, at least in Wales we have Ye Ddraig Goch, The Red Dragon, nice and mythological and non religious.

Parents
  • i agree with you so much as my village has now grown a forest of flags whereas before now, it would just be for special occasions. Richard The Lionheart was not an English speaker. It all seems so jumbled up when it comes to defining what pride in our flag should mean? Nothing to do with poor politics of blaming minorities.

  • The ability of Richard I to speak English is not known. He was born in England, probably Oxford, and he is first recorded as leaving England when he was about eight years old. So it is highly likely that he was exposed to spoken English in his childhood. We know that his father, Henry II, could understand English, though he was not a fluent speaker. Richard wrote poetry in French and Occitan and knew Latin, so he was a polyglot. I did once come across a record of him swearing at a captive, perhaps Isaac of Cyprus, in English, but have not been able to locate it again.

    By the 1150s most Norman aristocrats in England knew English. Many of the first generation married English wives, when they inherited land through such a marriage. Strangely, the first generation of Normans born in England abandoned the shaved neck and faces of their fathers' generation and adopted the long hair and facial hair of the Anglo-Saxons.

  • Hello Martin, thank you for correcting me regarding Richard the 1st ability to speak English. I merely read it as part of an article on the recent flag waving trend.  Medieval history is not my strong point.

Reply Children
  • It is ironic that Richard, who was considered by his contemporaries as a model Christian ruler, is now considered to have been a poor king. He led a largely successful Crusade, was a noted warrior, an expert military commander, a poet and troubadour and kept a tight grip on his lands and subjects. He only spent 6 months in England following his coronation, but this was because he was Crusading, in captivity or fighting to secure his continental possessions most of his reign. Rather than reflecting on Richard as being a bad king, that he only had to be in England for such a short time is really a positive indication that England was a relatively stable and well governed country during his reign.

  • Richard the Lionheart is a bit of an enigma really, people forget that he, like his Father, Henry II ruled an empire, the Angevine Empire which stretched from the borders of Scotland to the Pyrrenes in Southern France. England was only a small part of his domains, one of the first things he did when he became king was start organising to join the Third Crusade, he is alleged to have said he'd sell London if it would give him the funds for crusade.

    Richard was almost the perfect example of the "Age of Chivalry", he was a poet and musician, well mannered and a total psychopath on the battle field, some of his actions during the crusade shocked his contemporaries, like the mass executions of Muslim POW's and although they didn't call it so, reckoned it a war crime. His soldiers seemed to be fanatically loyal to him and he was accounted a good leader, probably because he was happy to sleep on a muddy field, freezing and wrapped only in his cloak, he was also deemed to be "lucky", a good quality in a leader.

    On his journey back from the Holy Land he was captured and held to ransom, it took his Mother, Dowager Queen Elanor of Aquitaine a good while to raise his ransom, beggaring half the Empire to pay for it. He ruled for 10 years, dying from infection caused by an arrow wound to his shoulder or neck, leaving an Empire that was broke and rapidly fragmenting to his brother John, of Magna Carta fame. 

    I think it a shame that this period of history is relatively unknown, it's exciting and is the root of many later conflicts. The people involved were extraordinary at any time, but all at one time is almost unparralled.

    For further information, try reading Alison Weir's non fiction biography of Elanor of Aquitaine.

    Sharon Penman wrote a good trilogy on Richard and to contrast it, Jack Hight wrote a really excellent trilogy on Richards opponent Saladin, these books are novels, but very well informed ones.

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    We've got some flags on some lamposts, one must have blown off as its now below another flag, these too are "half mast", still out of reach though, I don't know who put them up or how. I think the wind and rain will take care of them.

  • Hi, That he could not speak English is often trotted out as a reason for him not being a 'good' king. However, it is not known to what extent he knew English. A record of 1175 shows a Norman-descended aristocrat being warned by his wife that a retainer had drawn his sword, presumably to attack his lord, in English, "Huge de Moreville, ware, ware, ware, Lithulf heth his swerd adrage!" Which is still fairly understandable.