Religion and Spirituality

I used to work in retreat houses and did a 30 day silent retreat once, plus many more 3, 5, 7 and 10 day silent retreats, in Ireland, the UK and abroad. 

I suspect mine were of a different style to yours, but at the end of the day, religions and beliefs can learn much about contemplation from one another. I used to have a cassette tape (decades ago) recording of a Jesuit priest who had gone to India to learn more about silent contemplation. It was probably the equivalent of today’s mindfulness phone apps. My silent contemplation these days is more about focusing on the breathing until time and being ceases to be noticed in my head.

I am not under any illusion about the political reality of the world. I agree that compassion is not sympathy - it can be all kinds of things that call for action and that can also mean walking with someone (metaphorically) and working for their needs through engagement with the public, with agencies and politicians at home and abroad, to give people a better future. 

Some may dismiss compassion as fanciful, but I do not want to compromise my values. Just because something is not easy to obtain, does not mean you shouldn’t hold on to your beliefs and proclaim them loud and clear.  

We desperately need compassionate and wise leaders. I don’t know what sort of things Jeremy Corben’s new Party will stand for as there hasn’t been news of his intended policies.  I like some of the things he did in the past, but I found some of his past behaviours problematic and perhaps he didn’t always make the wisest decisions. I would never trust Starmer’s Labour again either. I cannot understand his thinking around the decision to take money from the most vulnerable and needy. 

The wider world politically is a terrifying reality, so I believe it is also important to have leaders trained and gifted in rhetoric so they can hold their own when communicating to the public, and when talking to bullies like Trump and Vance. The inequality between the richest country in the world and the poorest is quite disgusting. US aid has been stopped, yet it would take just a tiny percentage of its wealth to save lives and give people a better future. 

The disregard for human lives and suffering is very frightening. 

It would be good to have some wise and compassionate leaders, but like you Iain, I doubt if we'll get any and even if we did, there would still be the rest of the world to deal with. Have you ever known a time when leaders aren't self serving?

I think that you're making a common mistake about compassion though, it's not sympathy or dithering and hand wringing, it can be as much a kick up the bum, or some home truths. Compassionate people are just as capable as anyone else of going to war, especially to defend ourselves and others, we just might think about it a lot more and not want to look the mother of a dead soldier in the eye and say they died for nothing. 

Kate Kestrel said:

We need compassionate, wise leaders

This is a utopian ideal but consider the times we live in.

We have a deeply polarised population, mostly between conservative types (small c) and liberals who see very different ways of dealing with issues. It seems neither side is interested in considering the others side of the arguement.

America has it even worse.

We are also in a dangerous situation with foreign agressors like Russia, manipulation from China and brute force attempts from the USA to make us act in ways they want.

I don't think kind and compassionate can cope with these pressures. It is a bit like in wartime, a compassionate leade just doesn't have the guts to take the steps necessary to look after the countries interest.

Politics is pretty rotten through and through though - I doubt we will see any non self-serving leaders or parties in my lifetime.

If there is a solution, you can bet the government would shut it down hard using anti-terrorism laws as it is about anyone protesting against genocide at the moment. They will not let go quietly or easily.

Was this a council library? That’s really sad. I’m  sure no one would really object to Christmas decorations! 

We need compassionate, wise leaders - and to get them we’ve got to vote for them. I’m hoping that the new Party that Jeremy Corbyn is setting up can join with the Green Party (and other ethical independents) and that we can get a good Coalition of decent political figure together who might do better than the mess we have now. This society is only working well for a minority of people now - and we need to make it work better for the majority - including those on the margins of society. The Tory Party is never going to offer this as they want to maintain the status quo - and Starmer’s Labour is so far to the right now that there’s not a huge difference between them and the Tories. I’ll never trust Starmer’s Govt again as when they needed money for the economy the first people they tried to take money off was the disabled - especially those with mental health problems and autistic people. Truly despicable to want to do that. 

Yes - it would be wonderful for different faiths to come together. There is a lot of common ground. I’ve been studying Buddhism for the last couple of years and recently I’ve started looking at the Bhagavad Gita and there is so much common ground - so much wisdom and insight that they share. They both make western capitalist societies look horrendously basic and self destructive and I think they both have answers to much of the dysfunction we are now dealing with in the west. 
Re. Monastic life - I think spiritual communities that are very open and diverse would be great in the future. I think basically humans have got a long way to go in terms of finding happy and harmonious ways for us all to live together. But hopefully one day as a species we’ll get our act together! Maybe in about 150 years time! 

I don't see any reason why you can't be married and monastic, as long as you both agree that its the lifestyle you want to live.

It can be quite hard to find reliable information on them, but it does seem that there were early monastic communities (double houses) that were more like communes where people married, worked and worships and brought their children up in that way.

Personally I think you'd have to have establishements for married and single people as they dynamic would be difficult and the single people could end up marginalised and infantilised. But I don't see why you couldn't have both. I also think that more open spiritual houses where peoples of all faiths and none could meet, celebrate and worship would be great, theres to much seperation between the various faiths that just causes more barriers. For example my then landlord was fascinated by me going on a silent meditation retreat and we spent some time talking about his times in Amristar at the Golden Temple and my experiences of retreats in this country, I did wonder if he would of ever come with me? It would have been fascinating to have a Sikh perspective.

I’m drawn to monastic life too - but I’m too old really (and I’m married!). But that way of life is definitely in tune with how I’d like to live my life too (if I were able to keep my husband and have children - so that’s a major issue :) 

I'm not a fan of organised religion, it's to restrictive, one of the things that annoys me so much about modern Paganism is how codified it's becoming. I don't think it was ever meant to be codified, each coven set it's own rules, had it's own focus within a common framework of festivals and the basics of how to run a ritual. Since the internet it seem sto have been taken over by mostly American groups trying to help initially with the amount of interest, to telling others what, when and how they can do things. For me it's lost a lot of the anarchic qualities that drew me to it in the first place, however I do still count myself as a Pagan even if I don't go to rituals and ceremonies.

One of the things I've always felt drawn to is monasticism of some kind, the nearest I came to it was working in a retreat house, but the rhythums of the day suited me and the focus on the divine and ones place within it. Speaking with people of all faiths and none and learning from them, as well as helping and guiding them to where they needed to be in the world.

I really feel that contemplative life has been discouraged for so long and people don't see the value of it for themselves and others. What I used to really love were the silent retreats, many people freaked out about the idea of them, I did when I first heard of them, few saw any value except maybe oddly or not mothers with young children for whom the idea of being ble to finish one of their own thoughts from one end to the other without interuption was a wonder.

I really agree with you about having ‘all faiths or none’ in the House of Lords. 
I used to feel very negatively about Religion in general but as I’ve got older I’ve really got a different attitude to it all. After a very very dark period in my life I started to further what had previously been a fairly vague interest in Buddhism and Pagan religions into a deeper study of Zen Buddhism (using the teachings of Thich Nhat Hanh primarily) and then that broadened out into interest in other religions and philosophies - and it’s really enriched my life to do this. It’s been really interesting to find a lot of common ground between various religions and philosophies and to see how they connect and how they benefit people.  Obviously there are a lot of negatives to some religious institutions - but I think there’s a huge amount to be gained from learning about Buddhism and Mindfulness. Essentially the focus is to reduce suffering, be kind and compassionate and non violent, and to increase our happiness and warm heartedness. So very good! If everyone got more into Buddhism we’d have a much better world and a healthier planet!

RachelO said:

Religion can help define an individual’s value system and give them rules to live by and norms. Norms reflect patterned behaviour that gives rise to normative expectations about what ought to be done.

That sounds awfully like "masking for NTs". At least the rules are written down, though.

Some times I've felt that You Got The Love, (Florence and the Machine) is the story of my life, the Goddess has been there for me through my darkest times.

I don't think deep thinking is a curse, but a blessing

I find the subject interesting enough. Like any institution, the church can be reduced to its formation, purpose, statistical analysis etc. And there's certainly enough of it, with over a millennium of recorded Christian history, which essentially forms the backbone of our national history. Religious observance fluctuates depending upon various factors, though alternative explanations for the big questions have in more recent times been given by rigorous empirical thinking (ie. the scientific method) and diverse worldviews with perhaps more appealing content, such as those which are more nature-based or healing-focused. I wasn't brought up religious but I have the curse of being a deep thinker so it didn't take me long to find myself trying to pray and I've never really stopped. When I've broken down mentally, I can't imagine who I'd turn to, if not God. So it's kind of an intellectual depth and an emotive need which has caused me to turn to religion...or faith, I should say, not automatically synonymous with the trappings of religion. Just being assured that there is a God who knows everything about me, listens to me and listens when I talk to Him. Otherwise I think that I'd simply die of loneliness.

I have just seen this. I like to read about Saints in the early church like Saint Augustine and his work on conflict resolution and the work of Paul. I find these handouts really nice. Also, Timothy some say is written by Paul and it shows a more compassionate side of Paul.I found these online.A like some earlly Christian history and Paul was involved in that, the move from partaking of bread in a unknown private place to church buildings and how that moved.

 https://stanthonyshrine.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Temple-and-New-Testament.pdf    

https://stanthonyshrine.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Temple-Ministry.pdf

China I think is growing in Chrstanity

I'm not sure there are any, although if I had to guess I'd say China and maybe North Korea?

Have you ever read any early Christian histiory?

Religion can help define an individual’s value system and give them rules to live by and norms. Norms reflect patterned behaviour that gives rise to normative expectations about what ought to be done.

Christianity values come from the Beatitudes there are 8 of those that Jesus said on the Sermon on the Mount and I love these. Also, the values are the two greatest commandments Lord said was Love God first and to treat our neighbour as ourselves. Also, the 10 Commandments have always been a great value guide for me how to live. Also, there is more the New Testament-turning the other cheek day to day stuff and helping others and giving charity (alms) living modestly is one as well and not worshipping the self or objects.  That is plenty that can give one a good value system.

The government with its benefit system seems built to on treating others humanely which is built on respect of others and perhaps giving charity.

Now, if this was an Islamic country there are lots of similarities between the both-but its stance on some things may be slightly different.

My library used to put Christmas decorations-no more trying to be inclusive. These are the sort of things may end up knocking us in the teeth and regretting it.

Which countries have no religious values?

RachelO said:

thought that we were still with Kemi

She has never been Prime Minister, although it is easy to make a mistake as we have had so many of them in just a few years. She is currently leader of the Conservative Party. 

Lol, that tells you how I am into politics. I thought that we were still with Kemi. Thanks for the update on that. Goodness me.