Religion and Spirituality

I really agree with you about having ‘all faiths or none’ in the House of Lords. 
I used to feel very negatively about Religion in general but as I’ve got older I’ve really got a different attitude to it all. After a very very dark period in my life I started to further what had previously been a fairly vague interest in Buddhism and Pagan religions into a deeper study of Zen Buddhism (using the teachings of Thich Nhat Hanh primarily) and then that broadened out into interest in other religions and philosophies - and it’s really enriched my life to do this. It’s been really interesting to find a lot of common ground between various religions and philosophies and to see how they connect and how they benefit people.  Obviously there are a lot of negatives to some religious institutions - but I think there’s a huge amount to be gained from learning about Buddhism and Mindfulness. Essentially the focus is to reduce suffering, be kind and compassionate and non violent, and to increase our happiness and warm heartedness. So very good! If everyone got more into Buddhism we’d have a much better world and a healthier planet!

I'm not a fan of organised religion, it's to restrictive, one of the things that annoys me so much about modern Paganism is how codified it's becoming. I don't think it was ever meant to be codified, each coven set it's own rules, had it's own focus within a common framework of festivals and the basics of how to run a ritual. Since the internet it seem sto have been taken over by mostly American groups trying to help initially with the amount of interest, to telling others what, when and how they can do things. For me it's lost a lot of the anarchic qualities that drew me to it in the first place, however I do still count myself as a Pagan even if I don't go to rituals and ceremonies.

One of the things I've always felt drawn to is monasticism of some kind, the nearest I came to it was working in a retreat house, but the rhythums of the day suited me and the focus on the divine and ones place within it. Speaking with people of all faiths and none and learning from them, as well as helping and guiding them to where they needed to be in the world.

I really feel that contemplative life has been discouraged for so long and people don't see the value of it for themselves and others. What I used to really love were the silent retreats, many people freaked out about the idea of them, I did when I first heard of them, few saw any value except maybe oddly or not mothers with young children for whom the idea of being ble to finish one of their own thoughts from one end to the other without interuption was a wonder.

I used to work in retreat houses and did a 30 day silent retreat once, plus many more 3, 5, 7 and 10 day silent retreats, in Ireland, the UK and abroad. 

I suspect mine were of a different style to yours, but at the end of the day, religions and beliefs can learn much about contemplation from one another. I used to have a cassette tape (decades ago) recording of a Jesuit priest who had gone to India to learn more about silent contemplation. It was probably the equivalent of today’s mindfulness phone apps. My silent contemplation these days is more about focusing on the breathing until time and being ceases to be noticed in my head.

I've always believed there are different types of meditation, guided meditation where you are talked through an experience, sometimes with music mostly not. I dont' find music helpful when meditating, I find it more of a distraction, likewise people talking. 

Scanners clattering would be off putting and I don't think I could get in the right state of mind to meditate with one going on, I suppose you could do sticky pads on your skull? Bit Ithink I'd have to be somewhere where I felt safe, if I didn't feel safe then I either wouldn't be able to get in the right frame of mind or I'd end up with a massive PTSD event if I was disturbed.

TheCatWoman said:

But what is meditating properly? Different people and traditions do it differently and some don't do it at all, those who are new to meditation need the space to settle into

Exactly, we don’t know what is going on in somebody’s head. I agree that if people are new to meditation/contemplation, it can take days/weeks/months of practice to settle.

Traditionally Christian meditation was the action of seeking something - eg, understanding something, analysing something or asking questions of God. Contemplation was looking at something like a Bible scene, God, or a situation in your ‘mind’s eye’ and accepting it for what it is, without changing it. Nowadays, breath techniques are commonly used. 

I don’t know what my contemplation these days is technically called, because I do my own version adapted from previous spiritual experiences, but more like the meditation in the app ‘Headspace’ which was set up by a man who used to be a Buddhist monk. I used to subscribe to ‘Headspace’, but I haven’t used it for a few years now. I like complete silence with no voice guidance, music, or anything else.

TheCatWoman said:

I wonder if ND people meditate differently to NT's, are our internal processes and conections with meditation different? 

That would be fascinating to find out.

I am wondering if the brain would need to be scanned by MRI while meditating. If I was the subject for such an experiment it would take me a while to get in a meditative state with the clattering of the scanner.

I went with a friend a couple of times and we didn't talk.

The worst offenders I found were from another world famous spiritual centre on the Scottish mainland, they could rarely keep thier mouths shut for long always whispering loudly amoungst themselves and wouldn't shut up. This was really distracting when in communal spaces.

Another thing that used to amaze me, was the things people did in silent meditation, such as sudenly getting up and doing yoga, chanting or finding a new page in thier bible to contemplate, rustling the pages.

These people are always the ones who get on thier high horse and tell others they're not meditating properly if they can't ignore such distractions.

But what is meditating properly? Different people and traditions do it differently and some don't do it at all, those who are new to meditation need the space to settle into it.

I wonder if ND people meditate differently to NT's, are our internal processes and conections with meditation different? 

TheCatWoman said:

One of the things that really bugged me, was the people who thought that whispering was the same as being silent and it's so not, whilst I'd prefer a quiet vocal request for the salt to be passed along the table, rather than some elaborate but silent mime, whispering breaks the silence for others

Me too! It happened at every retreat. I don’t think people realise that the point of silence is to avoid distracting people from their commune with nature/God/beauty or whatever! Over exaggerated arm movements across a table and whispers in the corridor distracted me too much. It tended to be the people who had arrived with a friend who were the worse offenders. Most people I knew who were looking for a spiritual experience at a silent retreat would never choose to go with a friend.

TheCatWoman said:

One of the things that really bugged me, was the people who thought that whispering was the same as being silent and it's so not, whilst I'd prefer a quiet vocal request for the salt to be passed along the table, rather than some elaborate but silent mime, whispering breaks the silence for others

Me too! It happened at every retreat. I don’t think people realise that the point of silence is to avoid distracting people from their commune with nature/God/beauty or whatever! Over exaggerated arm movements across a table and whispers in the corridor distracted me too much. It tended to be the people who had arrived with a friend who were the worse offenders. Most people I knew who were looking for a spiritual experience at a silent retreat would never choose to go with a friend.

I've always believed there are different types of meditation, guided meditation where you are talked through an experience, sometimes with music mostly not. I dont' find music helpful when meditating, I find it more of a distraction, likewise people talking. 

Scanners clattering would be off putting and I don't think I could get in the right state of mind to meditate with one going on, I suppose you could do sticky pads on your skull? Bit Ithink I'd have to be somewhere where I felt safe, if I didn't feel safe then I either wouldn't be able to get in the right frame of mind or I'd end up with a massive PTSD event if I was disturbed.

TheCatWoman said:

But what is meditating properly? Different people and traditions do it differently and some don't do it at all, those who are new to meditation need the space to settle into

Exactly, we don’t know what is going on in somebody’s head. I agree that if people are new to meditation/contemplation, it can take days/weeks/months of practice to settle.

Traditionally Christian meditation was the action of seeking something - eg, understanding something, analysing something or asking questions of God. Contemplation was looking at something like a Bible scene, God, or a situation in your ‘mind’s eye’ and accepting it for what it is, without changing it. Nowadays, breath techniques are commonly used. 

I don’t know what my contemplation these days is technically called, because I do my own version adapted from previous spiritual experiences, but more like the meditation in the app ‘Headspace’ which was set up by a man who used to be a Buddhist monk. I used to subscribe to ‘Headspace’, but I haven’t used it for a few years now. I like complete silence with no voice guidance, music, or anything else.

TheCatWoman said:

I wonder if ND people meditate differently to NT's, are our internal processes and conections with meditation different? 

That would be fascinating to find out.

I am wondering if the brain would need to be scanned by MRI while meditating. If I was the subject for such an experiment it would take me a while to get in a meditative state with the clattering of the scanner.

I went with a friend a couple of times and we didn't talk.

The worst offenders I found were from another world famous spiritual centre on the Scottish mainland, they could rarely keep thier mouths shut for long always whispering loudly amoungst themselves and wouldn't shut up. This was really distracting when in communal spaces.

Another thing that used to amaze me, was the things people did in silent meditation, such as sudenly getting up and doing yoga, chanting or finding a new page in thier bible to contemplate, rustling the pages.

These people are always the ones who get on thier high horse and tell others they're not meditating properly if they can't ignore such distractions.

But what is meditating properly? Different people and traditions do it differently and some don't do it at all, those who are new to meditation need the space to settle into it.

I wonder if ND people meditate differently to NT's, are our internal processes and conections with meditation different?