Can I clarify whether of not I understand the definition of Theory of Mind? I fear a bit of Dunning-Kruger effect on my part

mnugent2000 said:

How does theory of mind (ToM) impact relationships?

Assuming people are not bad people with terrible political takes upsets them a lot, is that ToM?

Assuming people have good vocabularies upsets people a lot, is that To

I don't think this is ToM but more you making a judgement on the other person based on their political take / vocabularies.

mnugent2000 said:

Assuming people will not take a dim view of my subjective interests only to be disappointed then pulling them up for making it obvious I'm upset about their response, this upsets them a lot, is that ToM?

Again here you have made a judgement on their opinions and acting on this by "pulling them up" over it. ToM would be accepting they have a dim view and accepting this.

mnugent2000 said:

Am I supposed to apologize for giving people the benefit of the doubt?

Who are you apologising to here? If you give a person the benefit of the doubt and they repeatedly let you down then you are showing you do not learn from experience. If this impacts someone else then I can understand their being a need to apologise to them but otherwise I would treat it as a learning opportunity and be averse to repeating it.

As for hating being talked down to when you know you are right, this is a life lesson. There are plenty of idiots with authority who make dumb decisions and as an underling it will go badly if you fight them over it. It sucks but if you want to keep your job you need to learn to emotionally disconnect from these situations and just do the job you are paid for.

This is no small feat and I found it takes the help of a psychotherapist to role play the practical applications and learn to compartmentalise the emotions so you are not wasting energy on muppets.

Working out what is worth spending your energy on is an awesome survival skill - I strongly advise learning it and most of the issues you describe slip away like tears in the rain.

I think we are at cross purposes a few times here Iain.  Let me use examples. 

If I show my political stance assuming it is uncontroversial and someone is rude to me... I don't think that is me making a judgement on another person, that is me having an opinion and being verbally abused for not considering a reasonable person would have a problem with it before I offered it.  I'm scare to use specifics on this one.  I think I vaguely remember a guideline about this in the site rules.

A specific example of the vocab thing, again, I think we are at crossed purposes.  I have a few actually, came to me as I typed:

1.) I did an evening class, HNC Counselling, and I had a part of a project we had to present to the class.    In my segment, I remind everyone this word is a concept in counselling so common I was shocked that I go this response, I used the word 'reciprocity' .  The whole class, teacher included had a collective intake of breath so loud I looked up to see a room of faces showing horror. The lecturer even asked what it meant.  I was embarrassed... I asked do you know hat it is to reciprocate love?  I saw a lot of nodding and I said that is an act of reciprocity, you take and give ... it's kind of central to this subject.  I was big time angry at the response.  I was judged, not judging.  How the heck am I supposed to know what people know or don't know word selection-wise and accommodate it? 

2.) I have had people roll their eyes and sneer aggressively that I'm 'student'y' back in my mid-20s.

3.) I had a close pal fly into a rage while we had dinner because I agreed with him and used the word 'pithy' and he started screaming at me about how I lord it over him with big words.  Bud, it's 5 letters, I was agreeing with you and the lording bit? I had no idea you weren't following me and I don't think of you in any way les than..  that was HIS projection.

How is being talked down, open contempt, aggression and sarcasm in response to me enjoying WWE or comics or collecting figures or fantasy novels me judging them?  They are judging me.

The demand is for me to read their mind and adjust my behavior around word selection when I can't know their library of words they do or don't know.  They are being rude and acting as if I did something wrong and have something to apologise for. They condescend to me, they act out to innocent word selection invisible subjective boundary crossings,  but I'm the bad guy?  How?

I can't stand being about people, it's a mine field, be yourself ... not like that.  I hate it.  They demand you show up and treat you like an alien for nothing.  You think it is ok as a political stance to abuse disabled people for needing accommodations and PIP instead of collecting tax from tax avoiding entities like Google but I can't use certain perfectly useable words?  I can't enjoy a book they don't approve of or think I'd rather replay an old game I enjoy instead of go to the pub is unacceptable use of my free time? 

FYI I am ASD and have a physical disability so I can't work.  I am socially isolated, travel is painful.

I have been adverse to being around people who mistreat me so much I barely speak to anyone, I am very socially isolated.  The now unpracticed skills I learned on my counselling class gave me self esteem for the first time in my life in my then late 30s and I set boundaries and I operated an explicit 3 strikes rule.  Every person I put to the side was a win, thing is, I'm lonely.  Almost no one is left.  People talk a good game about wanting you to get better (I was diagnosed clinically depressed, agoraphobic and anxiety disorder... I suspect then misdiagnosed ASD, maybe comorbidities) but when you do start getting better they don't like the change in dynamics and push back at actual self esteem.

My parents are dead, don't really talk to my siblings, I text with a cousin and go to lunch with a niece when she can find time.  My monologuing I think has made her politely reduce the frequency, she says it is work related but I can clear out the dining area of the pub we go to lunch in when I go on a rant-y monologue about what is bothering me about US current affairs (a special interest).  I don't hear my volume go up and tbh I think the social obsession with not swearing is stupid considering fascism these days is a popular political opinion to hold.  Aktion T4?  S'fine. Say an F-bomb in a place they sell vodka?  Nope.  What?!

Thanks for the quick response Iain, I take responsibility if I was unclear, but in fairness it is a communications disorder.

mnugent2000 said:

The demand is for me to read their mind and adjust my behavior around word selection when I can't know their library of words they do or don't know.  They are being rude and acting as if I did something wrong and have something to apologise for. They condescend to me, they act out to innocent word selection invisible subjective boundary crossings,  but I'm the bad guy?  How?

I suspect what is happening here is down to one of the unspoken rules in society. The majority of society do not have your level of education/understanding or your vocabulary so when you interact with them, they expect you to use their level of dialogue.

When you start to use words that are uncommon (pithy being one example) then they see it as you either showing off your education or taking the pee out of them because they don't know what it means.

To them you are being rude by acting so high and mighty (in their eyes) and they feel quite reasonable in biting back with their comments.

There is a social expectation to adapt and fit in if you want to be accepted and the way we speak is just one of aspect of this. It includes why monologuing is found uncomfortable by others.

I'm not saying it is right, just telling you what I think lies behind the fact you are encountering so many of these situations.

If you can learn to "fit in" with your conversational style then it becomes much easier to have conversations with people, so I guess it is the price we have to pay if we want that acceptance. You don't have to do it of course but it seems from your discussions that you would like to understand why things work out as they have.

I'm so sorry you aren't getting out what you put in.  I feel the same way almost all the time.  The exceptions are VERY exceptional. 

Cats and dogs are great, eh?  They aren't the minefield most people are and when they like you it is wonderfully uncomplicated.

I'm so sorry you aren't getting out what you put in.  I feel the same way almost all the time.  The exceptions are VERY exceptional. 

Cats and dogs are great, eh?  They aren't the minefield most people are and when they like you it is wonderfully uncomplicated.