Disapeering thread and things we can't talk about

overwhelmed & underwhelmed ( O & U ) said:

The ability to at least vent - while it remains - is one good thing.

If your opinions that you vent about are damaging for the site or are hurtful to others then it is within the sites rights to censor you.

It is all about the damage your statements cause that is key - you diss the charity / site then don't be surprised if they exercise their ability to do something about it.

If it was the USA then there would be much more of a chance of a lawsuit so count your blessings we are no there - yet.

Unknown said:

No freedom of speech in the UK?  What would you like to be able to say?

I'm saying there is no law that enshrines our freedom to say what we want.

There is the very vague and wooly Citizens Charter that is about as much use as a chocolate teapot though.

I'm a pragmatist and realise that the controls on our society have evolved to allow those in power to pretty much do as they please and we have little ability to speak freely if such topics could cause them a problem.

It sucks but that is the world we live in.

TheCatWoman said:

Iain are you a free speech absolutist like Elon Musk?

Good lord, please don't mention me in the same breath as that maniac!

I have no expectation of free speech and my experiences with law enforcement have only reinforced the fact they will happily shut you down if what you talk about could stir up any sort of civil unrest. We already live in a culture where our "freedoms" are an illusion.

TheCatWoman said:

Is the situation better or worse than in Brazil?

It is just the same but here the police are much more content to pick you up, beat you up (or in some cases just dissapear you) and dump you with a warning that repeating the transgression will make it a lot worse for you in future.

I had a similar experience in the UK in the smallish town I lived and it seems to be appearing more in social media thanks to smartphones where even where the law enforcers are caught then they are back in business after a weeks or twos paid leave.

We are simply not living in a world where we have freedom of expression any more.

Iain are you a free speech absolutist like Elon Musk? Apart from some of the ridiculous stuff we're not allowed to talk about on here, how do you feel your free speech is being impacted? Is the situation better or worse than in Brazil?

I refuse to eat humble pie and nobody can make me and if they do I'll be sick, so there!

Seriously though, I don't know who this iste is being aimed at, allegedly it's for autistic people, but I think autistic children might be a better term? We do get infantalised, we don't seem to be engaged with, except to be told off. Anybody can be offended by anything if they choose to be, it would be good to have some idea of what we are and are not allowed to talk about in what I always assumed to be an adult forum. I know there are some people who's mental age dosen't match their physical one, but shouldn't their parents or carers have some responsibilty for what they can access just as they would if they were their mental age in their physicality?

I do feel infantalised, by not being trusted to be responsible with my posts, that I can't talk to other adults about adult things. Maybe one thing the site could explore is some sort of age verified adult site, where the rules are a bit more relaxed? Personally I'm a fed up with the number of spaces that are having to be family friendly, can't us adults have some adult time, where we can relax and don't have to mind our P's and Q's in quite the same way?

I too wonder who and what I'm being kept safe from? I'd hate for this site to be overrun with the sorts of hostility and trolling found on many other sites, but I don't think limiting the things we can talk about to something as banal as who our favourite Disney princess is is the answer either, although it does feel like the one NAS would be happy with.

I've seen the posts that are written to stir things up and be provocative and some that are just strange. I can feel the need to stir things up on occaision and be a bit provocative, it's often because I'm bored, intellectually speaking and want a "proper" conversation. It's up to others if they wish to indulge me or not, although usually O&U does.

No freedom of speech in the UK?  What would you like to be able to say?

Iain said:

This site isn't a democracy and there is no freedom of speech in the UK so I don't really know what sort of result we can really expect beyond this

Some small cosmetic changes possibly.

The ability to at least vent - while it remains - is one good thing.

People do, after all, complain about the weather in the full knowledge they can do little about it. 

Debbie said:

The trouble with that concept + where I have difficulty understanding it, is safe for whom?

My thoughts are that it is the charity of NAS trying to keep themselves safe from the regulators and lawyers who could come after them if there was any money to be made from a tragedy which they believed could be linked back to the discussion.

On the whole NAS are not very engaged with the community (I see precious few engagements from the Mods other than rule enforcement or the odd maintenance message plus generic help posts.

We have talked about this sort of subject on many occasions here in the past - we know their approach and use of silence as a blocker so I think our best approach is to follow the rules we signed up for and avoid talking about stuff that we know will be "dissapeared".

This site isn't a democracy and there is no freedom of speech in the UK so I don't really know what sort of result we can really expect beyond this.

Debbie said:

Although people have also left because of feeling 'unsafe' here in the past + told me so

That's another thing.

Knowing what to share & what not to.  We all have lives away from this place, and personally I have felt I could compromise myself if I said more on certain occasions.  

You do end up sharing things you didn't necessarily mean to, and I guess there's a constant element of trust and risk to be weighed-up.   Some don't care - others do. 

Also, there's been a couple of incidents when I felt others here were deliberately trying to goad or be seriously provocative.   As someone who probably enjoys banter too much, perhaps I can see it coming.  Some people did appear to think any opinion given was a valid reason to argue - whereas they COULD have simply given their input separately on same thread rather than to be so confrontational in style.  Perhaps it doesn't matter when talking philosophy or world affairs - but on a thread written about someone's personal circumstances it seems very wrong. 

There's been occasions too that (some) dispute anything that deviates from the published line given by this organisation or other organisations.  Organisations do not write the gospel - they often spin to their advantage.  We should be alert to this, and free to speak about our experiences without people here trying to shut us down. 

I've always tried to end any dispute with in a conciliatory fashion, but felt that others - remembering it takes two to argue - don't always do that.  I've had the impression - more than once - that people hold grudges and ill-feeling.  

I do wish people would ask - in general - if they maybe read something they don't understand rather than to leap to any conclusion.  A simple turn of phrase interpreted wrongly can make someone think a variety of things - Misconceptions can last forever. 

Finally, there's been what I'd call some really odd posts that some might call unnerving.  I did get the impression that some had been written for sheer devilment but you'd never know.  Yes, I've seen and read things that compromise safety even if they weren't designed to do that. 

Debbie said:

I agree + I know of a couple of people who have been banned (one quite recently) whom I used to have discussions with.

Perhaps some people are just too Autistic to be using a forum for Autistic people ?   

When could someone with Autism ever be controlled and be that square peg that fitted into that round hole?

It does make you wonder how many that run this organisation are ND or NT, but we don't get the right to ask questions like that.  We are just 'lucky' to participate if we behave. 

And in fact I have left the forum 3 times myself because I've been upset by disagreements (some of which I was involved in) and views/opinons of others here on subjects dear to my heart.

However, I'd personally rather have it how it once was, and being gently policed, than how it is now, and ultra policed.

It's useful though to know this background.

I believe it's part of what has led us to where we are now and also, we have had a change of forum manager, I believe.

overwhelmed & underwhelmed ( O & U ) said:

I just get the impression that they view this forum as something of an inconvenience.  I'd imagine they want more control over it  AND more compliant people taking part.

I agree + I know of a couple of people who have been banned (one quite recently) whom I used to have discussions with.

I'm not terribly surprised by one, but the other I am surprised by and troubled about.

overwhelmed & underwhelmed ( O & U ) said:

When you consider one of the main things people say - when coming here for the first time - is that they are isolated out there - we should be offering them reasons to stay put.  

Absolutely.

Debbie said:

As said before, people have left because of this and have told me so.

I just get the impression that they view this forum as something of an inconvenience.  I'd imagine they want more control over it  AND more compliant people taking part.

I just feel something isn't right.   Either you have a discussion forum that you don't Police to extreme, or you dispense with it in entirety and have a chat bot answering people when they rock up in distress (because I fear that's the way they are headed)

What do people want when they come here?  Really, I'd love to know?  

I mean, they already have access to all the NAS information - it is up there in that big purple bar - does it need repeating over and over? 

I think what they really want is someone to hear them, to understand, to make suggestions they perhaps haven't thought of, and to offer a community they can keep coming back to - full of people with the same mindsets.  

If you keep sanitising everything - same answers to every post - they might as well not contribute at all - and I do believe the lack of non-personalised responses some get is part of the reason many come here once and never return.  

When you consider one of the main things people say - when coming here for the first time - is that they are isolated out there - we should be offering them reasons to stay put.  

Debbie said:

people have left because of this and have told me so

Although people have also left because of feeling 'unsafe' here in the past + told me so - therein lies the problem.

overwhelmed & underwhelmed ( O & U ) said:

yet often I feel like a schoolkid who occasionally gets a certificate or a detention.  Is it just me?  

No, definitely not.

As said before, people have left because of this and have told me so.

I feel the same although I'm hanging on at the moment.

It's good to have a conversation about it (so thank you CW).

I'm not sure you can have a safe space when the whole world can view what you write.

However.  I agree with what you implied  (what Paul wrote)

To protest is useless.  Those who run this forum have agreed upon a code of conduct and essentially you agree to adhere to it when you join.   They also have the right to vary it as they see fit.

There's the odd pat on the head for doling out approved advice - it would seem - and warnings of bans should you not perform to the standards set.  

I keep coming back to the fact that this is meant to be a community forum for Autistic people primarily - yet often I feel like a schoolkid who occasionally gets a certificate or a detention.  Is it just me?  

I see your point and agree. I think as I mentioned that trigger warnings and content warnings might be useful in this instance.

Some of us might be very desensitised to horror films whereas others might find it very upsetting, so that's why there are ratings and content warnings beforehand.

I feel if something like this were adopted by community members it would feel a little less like we were being censored and stifled.

Unknown said:

I thought this was a safe space for discussion.

The trouble with that concept + where I have difficulty understanding it, is safe for whom?

Safe for those people who feel a need/want to discuss certain subjects + voice opinions or safe in the sense that topics/opinions are constrained to a great degree, so the risk of being upset/'triggered' is greatly reduced.

Should we also not talk about people stealing things or being attacked in case it gives people ideas? Good grief. I thought this was a safe space for discussion.

In some of the ND spaces I've been in before this one people were advised to add trigger warnings about sensitive topics at the top of their post and then be free to discuss what's on their mind. Would this be an option here?

I feel that again as autistics were being infantilised and shepherded away from certain topics because we don't know any better.

TheCatWoman said:

Big NO No's there, bad Catwoman

Bad O&U today too as I've been admonished also (again)

Perhaps we'll both be feasting on humble pie for the foreseeable ?


I committed the sin of copying and pasting the words of an Autistic person behind the paywall at the Telegraph online which could be construed as a breach of copyright.   That'll teach me as a Socialist not to touch the Telegraph with a bargepole ! 

Yep, just had an email from the mods telling me why my post had been removed and suggesting I go to other unspecified agencies and that it was removed in case it gave people "ideas".

I think the thing that really gets to people about those in my situation is that they feel helpless, so I have to shut up, they know there's nothing they can say or do to help. Worst of all I said I wish that the assisted dying bill would go further and why is it limited to physical health? Big NO No's there, bad Catwoman.