Disapeering thread and things we can't talk about

Unknown said:

No freedom of speech in the UK?  What would you like to be able to say?

I'm saying there is no law that enshrines our freedom to say what we want.

There is the very vague and wooly Citizens Charter that is about as much use as a chocolate teapot though.

I'm a pragmatist and realise that the controls on our society have evolved to allow those in power to pretty much do as they please and we have little ability to speak freely if such topics could cause them a problem.

It sucks but that is the world we live in.

TheCatWoman said:

Iain are you a free speech absolutist like Elon Musk?

Good lord, please don't mention me in the same breath as that maniac!

I have no expectation of free speech and my experiences with law enforcement have only reinforced the fact they will happily shut you down if what you talk about could stir up any sort of civil unrest. We already live in a culture where our "freedoms" are an illusion.

TheCatWoman said:

Is the situation better or worse than in Brazil?

It is just the same but here the police are much more content to pick you up, beat you up (or in some cases just dissapear you) and dump you with a warning that repeating the transgression will make it a lot worse for you in future.

I had a similar experience in the UK in the smallish town I lived and it seems to be appearing more in social media thanks to smartphones where even where the law enforcers are caught then they are back in business after a weeks or twos paid leave.

We are simply not living in a world where we have freedom of expression any more.

Iain are you a free speech absolutist like Elon Musk? Apart from some of the ridiculous stuff we're not allowed to talk about on here, how do you feel your free speech is being impacted? Is the situation better or worse than in Brazil?

I refuse to eat humble pie and nobody can make me and if they do I'll be sick, so there!

Seriously though, I don't know who this iste is being aimed at, allegedly it's for autistic people, but I think autistic children might be a better term? We do get infantalised, we don't seem to be engaged with, except to be told off. Anybody can be offended by anything if they choose to be, it would be good to have some idea of what we are and are not allowed to talk about in what I always assumed to be an adult forum. I know there are some people who's mental age dosen't match their physical one, but shouldn't their parents or carers have some responsibilty for what they can access just as they would if they were their mental age in their physicality?

I do feel infantalised, by not being trusted to be responsible with my posts, that I can't talk to other adults about adult things. Maybe one thing the site could explore is some sort of age verified adult site, where the rules are a bit more relaxed? Personally I'm a fed up with the number of spaces that are having to be family friendly, can't us adults have some adult time, where we can relax and don't have to mind our P's and Q's in quite the same way?

I too wonder who and what I'm being kept safe from? I'd hate for this site to be overrun with the sorts of hostility and trolling found on many other sites, but I don't think limiting the things we can talk about to something as banal as who our favourite Disney princess is is the answer either, although it does feel like the one NAS would be happy with.

I've seen the posts that are written to stir things up and be provocative and some that are just strange. I can feel the need to stir things up on occaision and be a bit provocative, it's often because I'm bored, intellectually speaking and want a "proper" conversation. It's up to others if they wish to indulge me or not, although usually O&U does.

No freedom of speech in the UK?  What would you like to be able to say?

Unknown said:

The trouble with that concept + where I have difficulty understanding it, is safe for whom?

My thoughts are that it is the charity of NAS trying to keep themselves safe from the regulators and lawyers who could come after them if there was any money to be made from a tragedy which they believed could be linked back to the discussion.

On the whole NAS are not very engaged with the community (I see precious few engagements from the Mods other than rule enforcement or the odd maintenance message plus generic help posts.

We have talked about this sort of subject on many occasions here in the past - we know their approach and use of silence as a blocker so I think our best approach is to follow the rules we signed up for and avoid talking about stuff that we know will be "dissapeared".

This site isn't a democracy and there is no freedom of speech in the UK so I don't really know what sort of result we can really expect beyond this.

I see your point and agree. I think as I mentioned that trigger warnings and content warnings might be useful in this instance.

Some of us might be very desensitised to horror films whereas others might find it very upsetting, so that's why there are ratings and content warnings beforehand.

I feel if something like this were adopted by community members it would feel a little less like we were being censored and stifled.

Unknown said:

I thought this was a safe space for discussion.

The trouble with that concept + where I have difficulty understanding it, is safe for whom?

Safe for those people who feel a need/want to discuss certain subjects + voice opinions or safe in the sense that topics/opinions are constrained to a great degree, so the risk of being upset/'triggered' is greatly reduced.

Should we also not talk about people stealing things or being attacked in case it gives people ideas? Good grief. I thought this was a safe space for discussion.

In some of the ND spaces I've been in before this one people were advised to add trigger warnings about sensitive topics at the top of their post and then be free to discuss what's on their mind. Would this be an option here?

I feel that again as autistics were being infantilised and shepherded away from certain topics because we don't know any better.

Yep, just had an email from the mods telling me why my post had been removed and suggesting I go to other unspecified agencies and that it was removed in case it gave people "ideas".

I think the thing that really gets to people about those in my situation is that they feel helpless, so I have to shut up, they know there's nothing they can say or do to help. Worst of all I said I wish that the assisted dying bill would go further and why is it limited to physical health? Big NO No's there, bad Catwoman.

Another reminder from the mods of what we can and can't talk about, gee thanks mods...not.

Debbie I think you're right, there is an age difference, some people seem to be a sence of offence looking for somwhere to manifest, others want everything to be pink and fluffy and start getting upset when they realise the world is not only multicoloured but that not everyones garden is rosey and there are nasty bits to life and particularly its ending that DO need to be talked about.

I think too many people feel they have a right not to be offended, and this gets dangerous, its how the really bad stuff happens, genocide, extreme politics etc. 

I'm not sure I feel safe in a space where there's so much I cant say, that I can't talk about, that from some people's reactions that I'm not supposed to think! That's really scary.

Nobody seems able to agree to disagree anymore, things seem so polarised, theres seems little space for nuance anymore and yet it's in the nuance, the grey areas, where most people actually live. Why does my feeling that there are times that women need women only spaces make me, in the eyes of some, transphobic, when I'm anything but.

I would like to have my thinking challenged, not shut down, but to be discussed in a rational albeit heated manner and I want to be able to do that to others. It seems bizarre that a generation that seems to dislike anything vanilla, should wish our social discourse to be so contrained.

People need to remember, opinions are like A**eholes, everybodies got one!

I wonder if there is a generational thing going on here.

I note the new definition of 'safe' and in an online context it appears from my experience on this forum that talking about anything that 'triggers' or upsets another member can make them feel 'unsafe'.

I have noted that in the past when there have been disagreements on the forum, it's tended to only be younger members who have talked about 'safety' and have left because of feeling 'unsafe' in this context but us older members just shout at each other (slight exaggeration but heated disagreements have taken place and I'm included in that).

If the forum is over moderated it will just become very anodyne.