Job interview coaching

Thank you so much for your message. Yes soft skills are the hurdle. Interestingly at the latest interview they gave some of the soft skills questions in advance but not all. She did prepare for the ones she got in advance but I guess was taken aback by the other ones. I will get her to practise. She does ask questions at interviews but I have noticed she only asks technical questions about coding, problem solving etc. She needs to show that she is interested in the team and people at the company and ask for example about the company culture. I will look at the links and pass on to my daughter. She has a beautiful mind that needs to be discovered. Thank you 

I'm a software developer, have been for around 20 years, and I hope your daughter finds a job in this field because it is wonderful to me, I can't imagine doing anything else. I do understand how it's frustrating, especially as I'm assuming this will be her first job. I remember my first attempts at my career and constantly being rejected - one good point I'll say though is that once you are through that hurdle, getting any other job is far easier, since you'll then have actual work experience to fall back on.

It sounds like her technical skills are absolutely fine, but having problems with what they call the "soft skills" (ironically the hardest skills for people like us). Others have mentioned teamwork and that is definitely important, since I would expect your daughter to definitely work alongside other people, both technical and non-technical - such as managers, but possibly designers, sales people and marketing (depending on the job).

I should also point out that a job interview works both ways - everyone assumes that it's the interviewer asking all the questions, but you are allowed to ask questions back. In fact I would recommend it, because it's showing them you are interested in them beyond just wanting a paycheck. And it also means you don't have to like them in return - if it doesn't feel right to you, you're not obliged to accept them. If your daughter is autistic, then I would recommend she thinks carefully about accepting any offer she does eventually get, to make sure she would actually be happy at a company. It would probably be more stressful for her to keep quitting and going over this whole process again and again because she wasn't happy to begin with.

In more practical terms, looking for some coaching sounds like a good idea. I have in the past volunteered as a mentor for CodeBar https://codebar.io/ which is a charity to help diversity in tech roles (sadly, there is still a large gender gap in this field, but it is slowly getting better). They do meetings in the big cities, but there is a virtual meeting group too. I suggest this because she might try it out and ask for a coach to help her with interview practice.

Another thing is I follow someone on LinkedIn called Jade Wilson, she works at Microsoft and has recently been diagnosed as autistic (maybe ADHD too). She's passionate about passing on what she learns by posting videos about technical subjects but also about interviews, you can find them here: https://www.youtube.com/@Jade-Codes/videos

I hope that is some help, and I hope your daughter gets a start with her career. 

Wow, there is so much wisdom here. It is really interesting and informative to read about your experiences. I will definitely reflect, read, research and and think about how to work with my daughter to prepare for future job interviews. The good thing is that she is receptive to take advice from me. Thank you all

Thank you Rosie, I will look through the links

Tears_before_bedtime said:

Still got nearly 12 years until my planned early retirement. 

I retired at 54 - best decision ever!

I used the ONS calculator to estimate my life expectancy - it has me at 84 before the grim reaper comes calling so I still had 30 years to enjoy.

I estimate that I would have 10 years of active life as now, a futher 10 years or a slower pace as age related health issues start to bite then 10 more years of much less active and probably supported living.

If I had waited for the "approved" retirement age then I would have missed out on the active years so there is a huge win for me - and the chance to do a job I enjoy (property renovation) is a big bonus as I can also do a lot of charity work there as well.

I've moved to a country where everything is a lot cheaper, the climate much warmer and the food way better than the UK - and the locals are a fun bunch in general.

My advice is to plan what you need in order to live and find a way to make it go a whole lot further then make the jump - life is so much nicer out of the rat race.

Dear NAS74377,

Thank you for sharing this with the Online Community. I am sorry to hear that your daughter is struggling to find her first job. You may find the following resources helpful. 

We have information and advice on applying for a job, tips for interacting and coping at work, advice on dealing with bullying in the workplace and what the law says about your rights at work: https://www.autism.org.uk/advice-and-guidance/topics/employment 

You can also find our free online ‘Finding Employment’ module on our website: https://www.autismonlinetraining.com/ 

This module is designed to help autistic job seekers entering the job market understand their strengths and what next steps they could take towards gaining meaningful employment or work. 

Evenbreak matches disabled job seekers with employers to build a diverse workforce. You can visit the Evenbreak website for listed job vacancies: https://www.evenbreak.co.uk/ 

The British Association of Supported Employment has a database of supported employment agencies, so you can search for one in your local area: https://www.base-uk.org/home 

Maximus offer a range of employability programmes throughout the UK, including, programmes for disabled people who are struggling to find work: https://www.maximusuk.co.uk/ 

The National Autistic Society employment and volunteering opportunities are updated frequently. We particularly welcome applications from autistic people. 

Kind Regards,

Rose Mod

I have a collection of phrases I repeat to myself when stressed. One of them is "learn to live with chaos", that I think chimes with what you describe. Sometimes it works, other times not so much.

I'm bipolar too, so naturally tend towards a cycle of boom and bust. I'm also unfortunately drawn towards challenges at work and tend to dive into new stuff head first on the assumption I'll learn to swim before I drown. Sometimes I win, other times I don't. I always learn something though and it stops life being boring.

I'm looking forward to retirement though, when I can choose my own challenges. Have a lot of prospective projects in mind. Still got nearly 12 years until my planned early retirement. 

Tears_before_bedtime said:

My main problem is the constant reorganisations and changes to what my role entails.

I found the only way to cope with this is to change how I saw the job.

Seeing it as something in constant flux where I could carve out islands of predictability gave me a sense of control yet with flexibility enough to go with the change when it inevitably happened.

Moving into management actually helped as while it was much more chaotic it also brought with it a chance to create more stability for others - to improve the function my team delivered and help all the team members enjoy their work more (and hence be more productive).

Being able to savour those times of predictability without being stressed when chaos sweeps in and messes it up is a big part of this. Spot the good times, make the most and when it all goes bluetits up then look forward to the next one.

That acceptance of the constant flux of life has also been key to a lot of my happiness. If you think about your body it is constantly changing the cells that make it up yet we think of it as mostly permanent.

My therapist was instrumental if finding this peace and acceptance so if you ever decide to search for something like this, I can heartily recommend it.

Iain said:

Maybe I should write an article on job survival strategies for autists.

That's a good idea tbh. I've spent quite a lot of time analysing my strengths/weaknesses, what I like/don't like, what my ideal working environment is etc. It really helps and I wish it was a skill I'd been taught rather than having to learn on the job.

My main problem is the constant reorganisations and changes to what my role entails. As well as the lurches off into whatever the new corporate fashion is. I've weathered nearly 20 yrs with the company though, so I'm not doing too badly (despite being on long term sick atm, it's only the 3rd breakdown in 19 years so I'm still counting it as a win!).

I've only ever had one really spectacular fail at a job. That was when I moved from never having managed anyone before to managing a team of c.20 people in a high pressure environment when I'd previously been a member of that same team. It didn't work out very well! Luckily I got a move to a more technical role in the same company, without as many people to manage. I learned quite a lot from the experience though

Tears_before_bedtime said:

practice telling the stories ahead of time.

This is most effective if you can do it with someone who will role play the interviewer with you - simply to get the practice of making eye contact, pacing yourself, not losing your place in the equence of the answer etc.

It also builds the neural pathways of recalling the situations and using the relevant jargon so it sounds natural (to them).

This was a big part of my role play practice for candidates where I would use different personas for them to deal with so they could handle most things an interviewer could throw at them. Dealing with a rude or aggressive interviewer is sometimes part of the test (especially if the role involves dealing with rude and aggressive customers) - it is their way to see how you cope under duress.

This stage often takes multiple sessions (with cooling off time in between) to practice and perfect the skills.

Tears_before_bedtime said:

The competency part of an interview really has nothing to do with your ability to do that specific job.

Agreed - ideally the technical interview (normally online) is handled before the face to face interview to avoid letting unsuitable candidates through.

The competency test is largely a test of real world skills and your ability to explain things using particular templates.

The practice should reinforce these memories and , more importantly, tear them apart under scrutiny and still be plausable.

Often the interviewers want to see how you cope when it isn't something routine or easy - they want to see how you cope with the occasional unusual situation which may put you out of your comfort zone.

Understanding what is being actually asked for and practicing it would be the most effective way to get the job, but then you need to live the job too and this is were most of us struggle in the real world.

Maybe I should write an article on job survival strategies for autists.

Advice re competency interviews:

The competency part of an interview really has nothing to do with your ability to do that specific job. Competency based interviewing is a separate skill that needs to be learned.

The questions are usually things like "tell me about a time when you had to work as part of a team to complete a project". It's not obvious or easy to answer if you've not come across it before.

What they actually want is for you to tell them a story. The question is just a prompt for the sort of story they're after.

To perpare: read the job profile carefully, along with anything else they send you. Use that to work out the sort of stories they might want to hear.

e g. if the advert mentions teamwork think about something you did that involved other people that you can tell them about.

Think about what YOU did. The interviewer doesn't want to know what other people did, only your input. Then put the story into a structure.

I use the STAR format: Situation, Task, Action, Result. So, for teamwork something like:

[Situation:] part of my college grading was an end of year project that needed to be done in a group.

[Task:] my job was to help my classmates put together a 10 minute presentation we could deliver to the whole class.

[Action:] I moved our desks together, so we could talk, and made notes of the different ideas. This meant everyone  could see the ideas and helped the team pick the best ones. I made sure we all understood our roles by writing up who was doing what. I then agreed with the others to have regular check-in meetings over the next 2 weeks to discuss progress.

[Result:] the project was a success and we all passed the year.

Drop the titles for each part (ie. don't say "situation", "task" etc) and practice telling the stories ahead of time. Tell them out loud to someone else (if possible) to get feedback. Or at least do it in front of a mirror to give the feel of having an audience. Do this repeatedly until you're confident with each of your stories.

Useful tip: you can take your notes into the interview along with the job advert, your CV etc. Don't just read what's in front of you though. Having the notes of your stories will help prompt you if you get stuck.

An interview is a chance to show off. Tell them what you did and why it was a success. Don't lie (eg if your job was taking notes don't claim to have organised the meeting). But you should be very positive about what you did do.

Good luck!

Things like 'meet the team' make me feel sad, because I know personally that I would fail instantly at that stage. I would have absolutely no idea what to say and either stand there and freeze, or say something completely random and/or weird. Even though I know on  the inside I want and could do the job, this would not come across outwardly at all. It would take me a few weeks to come out of my shell and I just could not do that when put on the spot. Maybe try 'disability confident' employers who can adapt the interview process or make allowances. I wish you and your daughter all the best.

Thank you all for your views and insights, I shall reflect and find way to help my daughter in the best way I can. 

That's so true about the importance of teamwork. In my company the last interview stage is meet the team. The candidate meets the members of the wider team, we have a chat so that both parties can see if they could see themselves working together. Now on reflection it feels odd. We know from various theories that teams are the best if they include the diverse membership (the leader, the inspirer, the organizer, the completer / finisher etc). To be honest right now I am mostly heartbroken for her because I know she is so intelligent and the hiring managers can't see it. I need to pull it together, find resources and work with my daughter so that next time she does get the job. Thank you

Personally, I don't generally "brand" my oddities with any label - I simply explain that I do some things, and see some things - differently to most [and that generally means differently to ALL people btw!]

I think it is infinitely easier when you are an old git like me - who has experience and demonstrable competencies in my field.  If I am honest, I MASKED THE F out of my life when I was younger and thinking that I must/should rapidly crawl up a ladder?!  I have subsequently come to learn that I like to "place" my own ladders, in my own "places."

I think NAS74377 is showing wisdom and politeness toward me with her response to me below.  I admire that, and it also lets me know that her daughter is in safe parental hands.  This makes me feel happy.

Cloud44 said:

It's awful really how employers seem to want someone who can reel off a script of perfected answers, rather than just be real.

A big driver for this is actually equality.

All candidates have to be scored on exactly the same questions with the same panel of interviewers so there can be no consideration of bias.

As a result going all freestyle in your answer makes it hard to get a reliabley consistent score so you will get marked down in most cases.

Cloud44 said:

The problem with coaching is that it's like masking, you can excel at the interview but then can't keep it up in the workplace.

This is a strong reason why only around 20% of autistic adults are in work.

Cloud44 said:

I do feel like being honest about her diagnosis will be the best way forward

It is a tricky one. You can learn to fit into the NT world and earn a living, get a bit of a social life and feel involved at the cost of a lot of masking or be fully authentic and effectively live as a hermit it seems. It will depend what the daughter wants to have.

So long as the efforts and costs (in terms of energy and stress) are clearly explained then it is her freedom of choice.

It's awful really how employers seem to want someone who can reel off a script of perfected answers, rather than just be real. The problem with coaching is that it's like masking, you can excel at the interview but then can't keep it up in the workplace. I do feel like being honest about her diagnosis will be the best way forward, then she can be her real self, which is what she will be when she gets job anyway. Masking (pretending to be neurotypical to fit in) does get easier as you get older, but it's honestly draining and leaves you burnt out. I'm always honest with people now so they know what to expect. Make sure she explains her qualities - attention to detail, very focused, hardworking, will put in 100%, that sort of thing. 

NAS74377 said:

the feedback was the employer thought that the other candidate would work better in the team

Team work is a very important aspects of most jobs and software development often required collaboration with team mates to balance workload, divide tasks and troubleshoot issues.

It would be good if you could teach her the importance of this and give her role play practice of answering these sorts of questions. By giving her positive feedback on her progress you can instill confidence and get her to practice until it feels natural.

If she is looking for a job that has no social contact and she just works on her own then she will struggle as working on a team environment is by far the standard now.

A quick search brings up plenty of helpful articles to study this (for her to do) so she can examine the rules, dynamics and expectations from the comfort of her chair before your roleplay makes her explain how she would integrate into such an environent.

A good link to start with is  https://theinterviewguys.com/teamwork-interview-questions/

I used to both coach and mentor staff for interviews (in my own time) when one of my team had aspirations of changing roles or moving up the chain - the site rules here prevent me from giving out personal details otherwise I would offer to help remotely (I don't live in the UK now).

Thank you, I think there is a balance being being true to oneself and awareness of the environment. Certainly a good point, thank you

I can't help with your specific query, but I can assure you that even odd-balls like me DO find appropriate and happy jobs eventually.

Perhaps it is better for her to keep persevering "as her true self" so that when she does "land that job" she will be fine to just be herself?  Coaching to "get a job" won't necessarily mean she will then be happy "to stay" in that job?  Just something to bear in mind perhaps.

I hope someone else here will be able to offer advice on the specific coaching suggestion that you seek.

Good luck to both of you.