Culture wars

I can answer many of your questions being a white middle aged man. I will try not to stray into too much politics , or upset anybody. My political views are very mixed , right wing on immigration and net zero and left on economey and the rich. 

Basically change is the biggest issue. I grew up in the 70's and 80's in a 95% white society on a council estate. Back then everybody worked, being on benefits was shameful, Christianity was the norm(I am agnostic BTW) and people were basically all the same. If you were non white British you fitted in with everybody else. That situation really still existed into the laste 90's being slowley eroded. I have been to places in London that were 80% immigrant, thats not my country, but it has been allowed to happen all over the western world.

One of the tings that really annoys people like me is we are not supposed to have any prejudice and we are not supposed to have any opinions that are now main stream. To those on the left I am considered racist because I see color, its how my brain is wired, it wont change. I dont activley do anything related to that persons color but I notice it and may have stereo typical feelings about them. Millions of us are the same. Its like with the Trans stuff , you can identify as a chicken as far as I care, but you are still either a man or a woman. 

I have a big mistrust of relegion, I was baptised and went to a standard non religious school where we sang hyms and prayed. I believe in nothing, its just not for me. I am all for relegious freedom, but also the right to critizise relegion. This is why Islam is very much disliked by people like me. They are stuck in the 7th century, treat women and 'gays' apallingly and take no critisim.

Before Christmas we relocated 200 miles to a rural area. Its like stepping back 30 years. The only non white faces you see run the post office, and indian and Chinese restuarants. I think the last census showed about 4% ethnics out of 4000. Thats how it used to be, no mosques, no GP surgery translators like where I came from, its a reall community and I love it. 

I hope I have not upset anybody but the OP did ask the question. Sorry about any bad spelling too, not my strong point!

Rob

NAS65321 said:

I have been to places in London that were 80% immigrant, thats not my country, but it has been allowed to happen all over the western world.

I'm afraid what this displays is your lack of knowledge. London has always had very large immigration populations that come in waves.

I came from a small, very white Scottish town to living in London and a number of other big cities internationally and the distory of these has been very interesting.

About 20,000 years ago there were no humans at all in the UK so we are all, ultimately, immigrant descendants. This is importany to remember.

About 100BC was the Roman Invasion that brought with it its own wave of support staff and services, resulting in a "modernisation" of many areas, increased access and the development of London.

I believe there are even claims that some arabic Jew from Bethlehem was her at some point by the name of Jesus something or another. Maybe this set a bad precedent by buying property and setting up their own places of worship - who knows (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8380511.stm)

Later in the 5th century there was a wave of Irish settlers (mostly up North), and down South the Anglo Saxons (mostly Germanic in origin).

The Vikings made quite a scene in the late 8th century but stayed on to form many settlements but it was the Normans in the 11th century who made it their own after conquering large areas of the South.

After this there were sizable waves of Flemings (not the kind that run off cliffs) followed by the Romani in the 16th century.

Next in the 17th century were the Hugenots from France, fleeing religeous persecution.

Then the pace really stepped up with the British East India Company in the 17th century - the British Empire provided the means of mass transportation and as it conquered territory after territory around the world it broght back workers from places like India/Pakistan.

After losing the American War of Indendence many of the foreign troops Britain used were rehabilitated back to the UK resulting in many Africans arriving there.

The Irish Potato Famine producd the next big wave of Irish immigrants in the 19th century, followed by Russian Jews fleeing persecution.

Early 20th century UK experienced 2 world wars where empire & ally populations plus refugees caused significant short term changes in immigration but since then there have been many controls placed on the process of allowing people UK citzenship.

Labour shortages and empire ties brought many blacks and Indians/Pakistanis here to work then they quite naturally wanted to bring their families.

As international travel became more accessible and affordable, refugees became much more mobile and with Britain having a reputation as a safe haven we have seen many, many waves of refugees at least in my lifetime.

London certainly has been the focal point for the arriving waves of immigrants and they will often setup ghettos as they have very little cash to start with and seek the comfort of their own people, but as they gain a foothold many will move on to more affluent neighbouroods.

This was seen with the Jews in the East end - then as they moved on they were replaced by Indians / Pakistanis / Bangladeshis/ They have been moving on as well and are being replaced by, well workers mostly - due to the massive rise in house prices making peoperty in the UK out of the reach of the vast majority of immigrants.

I lived in one of these areas when working in London in 1990s up to the 2010s - they are nowhere near as densely populated by one ethnic group as it appears as the majority are city workers who are in employment for long hours so you never see them.

What you do see are the families, the recent arrivals and those who are not yet allowed to work. They are visible because they have time on their hands and their culture leads to them being much more social than the average Brit.

Society is changing but it has always changed. You just have a rose tinted glasses view back to a time when you didn't know more and your world felt it was "right". In reality you were just living in a white ghetto of immigrant origins itself.

Society is fluid and constantly evolving. Embrace the change or get washed away by it.

I have plenty of knowledge of London, and British history. My dad was bombed out of London in 1940 and I still have family there. I must admit I do not like big cities anyway, too overwhelming Most western large cities are like London, doesn't mean we have to like it and he happy about it.

You are going back too far in time. Where I live now my grandparents, who would now be around 120yo, would recognise this place. That is not true of multicutral Britian. Cities always had Jewish parts, there were refugees from Europe and the like but they were always people that fitted in. I have no problem with people who come here from western civilized societies, no matter what color they are. I do have a issue with those from non western countries who do not share our values of relegious tolerance, are not 'civilized', and who treat women poorley. The west as a whole has not tackled this.

Finally as an example I reciently went to my former home town. The library that my mum joined in the 40's, I joied in the 70's and was an iconic community asset is now a muslim cultral center,. The library has gone to the community center. Also my favourite chip shop that ahd been run by the same Chinese family since the 70's is now a vegan take away. That is just an example of me being left behind.

I have plenty of knowledge of London, and British history. My dad was bombed out of London in 1940 and I still have family there. I must admit I do not like big cities anyway, too overwhelming Most western large cities are like London, doesn't mean we have to like it and he happy about it.

You are going back too far in time. Where I live now my grandparents, who would now be around 120yo, would recognise this place. That is not true of multicutral Britian. Cities always had Jewish parts, there were refugees from Europe and the like but they were always people that fitted in. I have no problem with people who come here from western civilized societies, no matter what color they are. I do have a issue with those from non western countries who do not share our values of relegious tolerance, are not 'civilized', and who treat women poorley. The west as a whole has not tackled this.

Finally as an example I reciently went to my former home town. The library that my mum joined in the 40's, I joied in the 70's and was an iconic community asset is now a muslim cultral center,. The library has gone to the community center. Also my favourite chip shop that ahd been run by the same Chinese family since the 70's is now a vegan take away. That is just an example of me being left behind.

I feel left behind too and I agree with Iain that it's age related more than anything else. Every generation has its own idea of some golden age, when things were different and better than now, forgetting that things like child abuse, DV and crime still happened.

I don't understand tech, QR codes,smart phones, streaming services, it all goes way over my head, people speak in abbreviations from texts, it takes me ages to translate what the hell they're talking about.

Education has changed so much from when I was at school, when I did an access course 25 years ago, our first maths lesson and they had numbers in brackets, I'd never seen them before and apparently thats normal GCSE stuff. People talk about doing things in Base whatever and I think what the hells that? They talk of integers, what are they? I know now what they are, but I still ask myself why?

The only constant in life is change, I know as autistics many fiind this hard, but once you accept it, it's quite liberating, you open up to new experiences and thoughts, ways of being.

My gr, gr Aunty lost her husband in WW1, he went down with his ship at Galipolli, we don't even have proper records for his death, she became one of the surplus women, women with no husbands and no real chance of remarriage, unless to a much older man who needed a nurse. So she stayed single, brought up my Nan and her brother after thier mother died, adopted another baby over the wall from neighbours, held down a job as a seemstress. She did all this at a time when women had to have a male guarantor for anything legal like a rental agreement. All our families have known hardship, it's not a badge of honor, we can celebrate people like my Aunty, without wishing to go back to a time to live as they did.

I study history, especially the Early Anglo-Saxons, I find them fascinating, but I wouldn't want to live there, I'm happy living in the here and now, with mod cons like washing machines, central heating.

If I had to eat the diet of the times when I grew up I'd probably be able to eat very little. I've been told by men of my generation that I'm undateable because I don't conform to thier cultural norms, I don't drink alcohol, I'm vegetarian, I read books and broad sheet newspapers, I don't have thier cultural prejudices, I love my mixed and multi-cultural family and most of all I won't do as I'm told! Why on earth would I want to preserve those sorts of prejudices?

"their day was only their first and lasting impressions of a place that will always be in constant flux."

This is the crux of it. Things will never go back to how you want them to, they will always change and then change again.

For what it's worth, I disagree with a lot of what you have said, but, I think that we are where we are now because democratic Western governments have ignored the concerns of many people about immigration. I don't agree with the vast majority of those concerns but in a democracy, you can't just ignore what a large number of people think. That's why we have ended up with crooks like Farage in this country, Trump in the US and others across Europe being able to exploit such concerns for their own end. These are dangerous times and it feels like we're on the precipice of some pretty awful times ahead.

NAS65321 said:

That is just an example of me being left behind.

This is just a side effect of you getting old I'm afraid.

I believe all generations get the the stage where they are saying "it was better in my day" when in fact it was just that their day was only their first and lasting impressions of a place that will always be in constant flux.

Everything changes and we tend towards being conservative (with a small C) as we age and long to go back to the safety of what we first knew. It wasn't better or worse in real terms, only in your perception.

Libraries are a dying feature and Islam is a growning religion in the UK so it is only natural that the space left by one is taken up by the other.

Food tastes also change so the (probably) unhealthy food from that restaurant has been replaced by (questionably) healther food that people now are demanding. Supply and demand.

You are becoming part of an obsolete age group so expect this to happen more and more - it is the life cycle of society and came to all those who came before you.