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Culture wars

TheCatWoman

We keep being told, especially by right wing political parties that our Judeo-Christian western culture and values are under threat from various places mostly Islam, but then I think they forget that Islam has the same roots as Chrisitianity and Judaism, they see the old testament as thier foundation too.

But are we really are we really a christian country anymore? I know a couple of people who go to church, but from what I see very few people actually identify as christian, I certainly don't. I agree that many of our values such as democracy and stuff have grown up alongside christianity and often in spite of it, but I see many of those values as having thier roots in secularism.

I also think that a lot of what's put forward as culture wars are really just a bunch of people who are too lazy to think about the feelings of others, who want to hurt others and proscribe thier liberties and choices. A survey I saw some years ago reckoned that for many middle aged white men 20% representation of groups other than thier's was anough for them to feel some sort of existential threat. In other words, they no longer have the privilages that they believe and have been brought up to believe belong to them.

One of the questions that keeps coming back to me is, what are these western judeo-christian values supposed to be? As an historian, when I look at the conversion periods of several countries I see a removal of rights, proscription of behaviours beliefs and parctices and enforcement of others often at sword point or other threats of violence. I'm thinking particulalry of the fate of one of the worlds greatest mathmaticians, Hypatia of Alexandria, set upon and flayed publically with pot sherds for daring to be an intelligent woman, or Iceland and Lituania who were told to convert to christianity or face invasion, this was all before the Crusades of which we are encouraged to revel in.

As I say I think modern western values have happened despite christianity not because of it and various church groups have co-opted them so as they can attempt to stay relevant when people get sick of the hypocracy.

Parents

  • I think it is impossible to say if we are a Christian country unless one defines ‘Christian’. Is a Christian someone who believes in Jesus Christ? Alternatively, a person who considers themselves a cultural Christian, but is an atheist? A person who believes in the divinity of Jesus, but who doesn’t go to church? I think if you classify a Christian as someone who treats others with respect, who values the dignity of every human, who believes in the divinity of Jesus and attempts to imitate his compassion and care for all - those who are different, those who are cold and hungry, foreigners, people of every race and nationality, then we are not a Christian country any more. 

    TheCatWoman said:
    I think they forget that Islam has the same roots as Chrisitianity and Judaism, they see the old testament as thier foundation too.

    I don’t think Islam sees itself so much as having its foundation in the Old Testament (largely the same, in part similar, in part different to the Hebrew Bible), rather it considers the Hebrew Bible a sacred text containing divine revelation. Islam, Judaism and Christianity share common but distinct ancestry, with origins in Abraham. 

    TheCatWoman said:
    I also think that a lot of what's put forward as culture wars are really just a bunch of people who are too lazy to think about the feelings of others

    King’s College, London has completed some research on Culture Wars.

    I was going to tell a joke but past experience tells me that my joke would go down like a lead balloon and in print, would sink even deeper.

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  • I think it is impossible to say if we are a Christian country unless one defines ‘Christian’. Is a Christian someone who believes in Jesus Christ? Alternatively, a person who considers themselves a cultural Christian, but is an atheist? A person who believes in the divinity of Jesus, but who doesn’t go to church? I think if you classify a Christian as someone who treats others with respect, who values the dignity of every human, who believes in the divinity of Jesus and attempts to imitate his compassion and care for all - those who are different, those who are cold and hungry, foreigners, people of every race and nationality, then we are not a Christian country any more. 

    TheCatWoman said:
    I think they forget that Islam has the same roots as Chrisitianity and Judaism, they see the old testament as thier foundation too.

    I don’t think Islam sees itself so much as having its foundation in the Old Testament (largely the same, in part similar, in part different to the Hebrew Bible), rather it considers the Hebrew Bible a sacred text containing divine revelation. Islam, Judaism and Christianity share common but distinct ancestry, with origins in Abraham. 

    TheCatWoman said:
    I also think that a lot of what's put forward as culture wars are really just a bunch of people who are too lazy to think about the feelings of others

    King’s College, London has completed some research on Culture Wars.

    I was going to tell a joke but past experience tells me that my joke would go down like a lead balloon and in print, would sink even deeper.

Children
  • in reply to ArchaeC

    ArchaeC, I guess it does depend somewhat on you define a christian, I think many of the core values are common to most societies and religions, you can replace belief in Jesus with the prophets or central beliefs of many world religions and differing forms of spirituality.

    I'm not sure what a cultural christian is, perhaps you could add a bit more?

    You're right, they all trace back to Abraham, Islam traces itself back to the other son of Abraham, the christians and jews to another.

    I think I saw some of that research in the Guardian or somewhere.

    It all seems to be very mixed up, a great big othering. I wondered what would happen when we left the EU, who we'd blame for societies ills, it would seem to be anyone who supports the rights of minorities, refugees, trans, etc. Even those of us who aren't offended by the things self styled cultural warriors are offended about. Personally I'm not offeded by mosques, synagogues, churches or other temples or shrines, as long as I'm not made to worship, I will treat them all with respect. The people in them, who spew hate in the name of thier god, not at all, but the majority, yes I do.