Defining what is AS and what isn't

I have obsessions with collecting but they tend to pass. So I want all tracks of an album and then all albums of an artist. But I never listen to them, and may not even like the artist just the one song. Is that a form of OCD? I remember spending a load of money to make sure my Terry Pratchett were all hardback with the same style of jacket

I find I have problems with bright light and if I can't see properly my hearing gets worse

But it is a vast spectrum and being here makes me realise how different everyone is. I think trying to attribute the same traits to all on the spectrum isn't possible. I also suspect a lot of people not classed as being on the spectrum do get the same traits, but maybe the difference is it is less?

Life would be boring if we were all the same

Hi Longman and Others,

I think I understand what Longman is trying to say, well here goes...

I too spaced out a lot when I was a younger child. I would go for moments into "my little own world" or simply into nothing at all and with the latter would completely lose what was going on around me. So if someone has said something to me, I wouldn't have known. These spacing out events do not occur often, now I'm older and I don't know why this is the case.

This doesn't mean I don't go into my own little world like I mentioned earlier but prehaps in different ways. For instance I might instead get so preoccupied in a task that is to do with my special interest, that I forget to eat for lunch etc. I think others have mentioned such issues before on here.

I think by analysing one's behaviour etc after events such as this or others, we may whether knowingly or unknowingly come across other behaviours that may seem "odd" or out of place. These then cannot be simplistically explained by the current working definition of Autism so we may ponder on them.

The positives in looking out for such behaviours, well for me is that, I can find out anecdoctal evidance from places like this forum that others may struggle with similar issues too. For instance whilst I'm not affected greatly by sensory issues as others may be on this forum, this then leads to the second point that it begs the questioning of whether such issues (like the sensory difficulties mentioned) should be looked or analysed in further detail and then given more weight when people are diagnosed with Autism in the future. 

For me this then issue then comes down to influencing Baron-Cohen et al   or those that actually set the diagnostic criteria for Autism internationally, to at the very least consider or acknowledge that the current model of the triad of impairments should be looked as being the starting block for Autism and that there may be other co-morbid or totally seperate issues/behaviours/traits/querks or whatever else you want to call them; that could have then potential being part of Autism. As a result this should lead to culture change (well in theory) and lead to the actual diagnostic criteria being changed accordingly.

I guess how far we go into this debate without adding too much that we risk loosing the core basis of the current diagnotic framework on Autism, is something that needs to be considered but I don't have an answer for this. I'm not saying I and others are hypochondriacs or whatever but this is an issue I have personally thought a lot about in private. I am therefore very glad that others like Longman have touched on this issue too and we can debate or look into it further. 

I hope I have tried to answer(ish) the issue that I believe Longman was bringing to our attention.

Take Care,

urspecial.  

It is interesting you mention that because since experiencing excess noise at my flat, my noise sensitivity has got 10 times worse, whereas before I moved it was not so bothersome. Right now I am still at my parents because a water leak has still not been completely fixed, two months later!, and I am sleeping better than I do when I am at my flat, but I am noticing noises more, and getting more stressed by them. It is as if the noise at my flat, which was a new experience for me (my parents live in a relatively quiet area), has primed me so that I am on extra alert for noise in general. This goes completely against the desensitisation model.

Hope said:

Yeah, I have problems with the spectrum idea as well. There is a spectrum within autism, this much is granted, but I don't like the idea that the traits taper off into the general population; the idea that everyone is 'a bit autistic'. That is like saying that everyone has a bit of ME, a bit bipolar, OCD.... It trivialises what can be a serious and often disabling condition. I personally don't like the notion of 'mild' versus 'severe' autism because we are not comparing like with like. All forms of autism can be severe, but the challenges are different, so how can we get this across to the general public? I think that no matter how hard we try, until we get a reliable brain scan, there will still be incredulity because neurotypical empathy only goes so far.

...or a little bit diabetic.  Everyone can get high blood sugar or low blood sugar, but they don't all need insulin!

And this attitude that our symptoms need the same approach as similar symptoms in others.  I have auditory hypersensitivity (which for some reason is worse in the evenings) and the OT who assessed me put in her report that I had hyperacusis, which is something you are not born with it comes from injury (noise or head) and they recommend desensitisation by exposing yourself to the noise that bothers you.  That would make my sensitivity worse!  Autistics are born with auditory hypersensitivity and there is a physical reason for it (http://sfari.org/news-and-opinion/news/2013/controversial-study-uncovers-hearing-glitch-in-autism).  There is even research that noise exposure does not work in autistic people: http://www.aaiddjournals.org/doi/abs/10.1352/0895-8017%282000%29105%3C0118%3AAITFCW%3E2.0.CO%3B2
 
http://raisingchildren.net.au/articles/auditory_integration_training_th.html/context/905
 and the LA are so ignorant that I had to research this and educate them on it.

It's like someone having a heart attack can have the same symptoms as someone having a panic attack - do they advocate the same treatment for these two extremely different conditions!

...I seem to have gone into rant mode.  Too much chocolate.

And I feel really angry that (a) I feel so alien and I am so different (b) they have no idea and I can't explain it to them because there aren't words I can find to do so without it falling into that "everyone gets that" idiocy (c) professionals are so ignorant about autism and they are meant to be the educated ones (d) NT expectations and demands are so fixed and unbudging as to how and why we should be like them and that (e) I actually end up feeling like I have to be like them and fit in, like it, accept it, not resist it and if I do that I am lacking somehow.

Yeah, it really is like being an alien and the other species not being able to know what it's like being one of us.  I feel it so much that I actually do feel like a different anthropoid, I look like the average human, can pretend to pretty much be like one of them, but I never will be.  And they can never know how it feels to be someone like me.

Yeah, I have problems with the spectrum idea as well. There is a spectrum within autism, this much is granted, but I don't like the idea that the traits taper off into the general population; the idea that everyone is 'a bit autistic'. That is like saying that everyone has a bit of ME, a bit bipolar, OCD.... It trivialises what can be a serious and often disabling condition. I personally don't like the notion of 'mild' versus 'severe' autism because we are not comparing like with like. All forms of autism can be severe, but the challenges are different, so how can we get this across to the general public? I think that no matter how hard we try, until we get a reliable brain scan, there will still be incredulity because neurotypical empathy only goes so far.

longman said:

Sometimes I suspect that reactions to auitism are similar to CFS/ME (Constant Fatigue Syndrome/Myalgic Encaphalomyelitis).

It's funny you should say that, I have cited Christine Miserando's Spoon Theory in a couple of places, as bearing remarkable parallels to Asperger's.  Christine has lupus, which I think may be similar to ME.

It became fairly widely reported in the 1980s, and wasn't taken seriously by the medical profession for many years. For one thing it was hard to diagnose, largely qualitative, something also true of autism/aspergers, especially at the milder end. So the diagnosis lacked precision.

Back in the 80s and 90s lots of people went down with this, including several friends who suffered dreadfully from its effects and the lack of support they got. Nowadays you tend not to hear about it so much, but that is because the medical profession have finally got their heads round it, and people who contract it get the right medication and the right treatment.

The problem with ME was it seemed to fit into the popular imagination as an excuse for staying off work. Basically the main symptom was rapid exhaustion, so by lunchtime you couldn't do anything, or in more marked cases couldn't get out of bed. People who had it were treated very poorly by employers, social services, DHSS, and GPs.

The trouble is the symptoms could be identified by the general population as common feelings, induced sometimes by ill health, but equally brought on by stress. So people who developed this were deemed to be over-reacting to stress levels most people managed. So it was easy to be prejudiced.

It was exacerbated by press reports and media attention.

OK CFS/ME was probably viral, autism is neurological. The problem is still public perception, and the way the health service reacts, especially as diagnosis is something vague.

But the symptoms of autistic spectrum can mostly, at least at the milder end, be defined as people appearing to make more fuss over things the general population seems to have to a degree.

There is nothing worse than the "pull yourself together" attitude.  I've even had it from my own husband.  It's pathetic, unhelpful and they have no idea.

This is why I don't like the concept of spectrum, especially one grading linearly into the general population. This lends itself to the idea that rather than being more severely affected, some people just aren't trying hard enough.

Nor me, I feel angry when people (even professionals) say that "we are all somewhere on the spectrum"!  It's absolute rubbish.

Please note I'm not justifying this perception. But I think it is a large part of the problem getting autism recognised, especially amongst people nearly able to manage.

So there is a need to QUALIFY the traits rather than just list them, and the triad of impairments doesn't by itself help convey the difficulty. NAS needs to look at how AS difficulties are described.

I really think that developing a diagnostic brain scan will help so much with this type of problem.  If it's on a brain scan, they can't refute it.  They ought to also look at the reactions an autistic person has or the effect on them, to being in what NTs view as a similar situation they might have.

Sometimes I suspect that reactions to auitism are similar to CFS/ME (Constant Fatigue Syndrome/Myalgic Encaphalomyelitis).

It became fairly widely reported in the 1980s, and wasn't taken seriously by the medical profession for many years. For one thing it was hard to diagnose, largely qualitative, something also true of autism/aspergers, especially at the milder end. So the diagnosis lacked precision.

Back in the 80s and 90s lots of people went down with this, including several friends who suffered dreadfully from its effects and the lack of support they got. Nowadays you tend not to hear about it so much, but that is because the medical profession have finally got their heads round it, and people who contract it get the right medication and the right treatment.

The problem with ME was it seemed to fit into the popular imagination as an excuse for staying off work. Basically the main symptom was rapid exhaustion, so by lunchtime you couldn't do anything, or in more marked cases couldn't get out of bed. People who had it were treated very poorly by employers, social services, DHSS, and GPs.

The trouble is the symptoms could be identified by the general population as common feelings, induced sometimes by ill health, but equally brought on by stress. So people who developed this were deemed to be over-reacting to stress levels most people managed. So it was easy to be prejudiced.

It was exacerbated by press reports and media attention.

OK CFS/ME was probably viral, autism is neurological. The problem is still public perception, and the way the health service reacts, especially as diagnosis is something vague.

But the symptoms of autistic spectrum can mostly, at least at the milder end, be defined as people appearing to make more fuss over things the general population seems to have to a degree.

This is why I don't like the concept of spectrum, especially one grading linearly into the general population. This lends itself to the idea that rather than being more severely affected, some people just aren't trying hard enough.

Please note I'm not justifying this perception. But I think it is a large part of the problem getting autism recognised, especially amongst people nearly able to manage.

So there is a need to QUALIFY the traits rather than just list them, and the triad of impairments doesn't by itself help convey the difficulty. NAS needs to look at how AS difficulties are described. 

For me, AS is:

Not having ever had any meaningful, long term friendships

Feeling like I don't fit in, and that the social world of the majority is impenetrable to me

Being a child in an adult's body

Constant anxiety and fear

Preferring my own company

Noise sensitivity

Inability to relax

Uneven developmental profile

Problems understanding what people mean; difficulty following instructions; interpreting things literally

Not knowing how to respond when people are upset

Need for routine, order, predictabilty, and control

Obsessions

Now, all of these traits can, and do, exist in people without Asperger's, but the difference is that either they are not disabled by them because they are not severe enough to limit functioning, and/or the traits do not occur collectively. But getting across the severity of this complex condition can be incredibly difficult. All I know is that, compared to people without Asperger's, I face obstacles and problems that they can never imagion. I am, however, very careful to disentangle what is directly caused by having Asperger's, what is indirectly related (co-morbidities like my OCD), and what might just be a personality thing: curiosity, perfectionism, verbosity. The latter could also be linked to Asperger's, but the link is tenuous, and so I would not include them under the main Asperger traits.

longman said:

I'm 63. I had an adult diagnosis about 10 years ago. OK my Asperger's is at the mild or manageable end, and I haven't needed to access services. So I may be a bit out of order, where many people on here have much more marked difficulties, if I try to relate my perceptions to theirs.

But there is a long standing problem of getting autism to be taken seriously by health professionals including GPs. And you can argue that's just down to prejudices and blinkered professionalism (well I do air that view on here often enough myself!).

GPs' biggest problem is just total lack of awareness.  In my own case, it caused my last GP (had to move GPs because of the problem) to wrongly attribute autistic traits to mental health problems and caused serious problems for my family).

Back in the 70s, if you didn't get diagnosed with something more psychotic, with associated inappropriate medication, or treated only for conventional depression, many people manifesting symptoms we would now class as autistic spectrum were simply brushed off as having immaturity problems or social inadequacy.

In the latter half of the 70s, working closely with students, I remember being told by a GP how so much of their resources were taken up with people who couldn't sort themselves out properly, due to immaturity or inadequacy issues they could sort for themselves.

In the 80s and 90s most people with these symptoms, if not requiring more marked intervention, were simply foisted off with relaxation exercises, assertiveness training and psyco mumbo jumbo packages like parent-adult-child, that were supposed to be a cure all for social inadequacy.

We've really only seen much progress in adult diagnosis within the last decade, and that includes many whose difficulties weren't picked up in school. And we are still witnessing extraordinary failures in support post transition from teenage to adult, for people with a diagnosis.

You have to ask yourselves why?  Is it purely down to ignorance, or a conspiracy to keep down the numbers diagnosed in order to save money?

I do believe there is a secret dictat to diagnose only the most serious cases, but there is also deep ignorance.

In the last decade before I retired I was engaged in disability support at the teaching level in a university, liasing with student services to support colleagues to support students as well as working directly with students. I was there for the beginnings of the progressive increase in undergraduates and postgraduates with autism diagnoses.

Not only did I gain experience of students on the spectrum and their support needs, I also witnessed public perception, and perception of people there to help. Autism generated a lot of adverse reactions, mostly because the behaviours seemed to many totally disproportionate from the contexts they arose in, and meant a lot of advocacy, trying to explain to others why things happened that didn't make sense.

I think that people on the spectrum, often having alexithymia, means we cannot adequately explain what we are feeling or how it affects us.  Sometimes something can overwhelm you without you actually recognising why.  So sometimes an attempt at an explanation, where you try to find the nearest version of events can be unimpressive to an NT who doesn't know what the experience felt like.  Also, with communication being our deficit, we perhaps don't know how to put it across the best way anyway.

I've also been on disability working groups at local authority level, and seen similar conflicts and issues.

Many parents on here report the public reaction of other parents and bystanders if their AS children have a meltdown or other behavioural reaction. The public invariably perceive it as an upbringing issue. OK there's a need to educate the public, but it is proving difficult to get this across.

The same, however, happens with adults. Many people's reactions to behavioural issues in autism are unsympathetic, especially if an individual otherwise seems able. Educating the professionals and public isn't making any headway.

Partly I think it is due to extremes/levels.  Even if we manage to find some words to explain it, what an NT might experience the same thing as could be way less.  Also, as we perseverate and obsess, the same thing for an NT could be an irritation or slight worry but to an autistic person could turn into an all-consuming phobia.

A large part of the problem is that some things people on the spectrum complain about, or offer as explanation for unusual behaviours, don't seem credible to others, or seem to be close to general experience where other people manage.

Someone just cannot experience what we do if they are not autistic, I don't know any way round that.  Like you said, if we seem otherwise capable, they tend to be judgemental and disbelieving.  It would appear to their mindset e.g. as drama-making or attention-seeking and they will also, like GPs, fall back on mental illness as an assumption.

OK collective/cumulative impact of many traits is part of the problem - a trait may be less significant on its own, but collectively with other traits becomes a serious handicap.  Elsewhere there are qualifications that can be made about the frequency, persistence, disorientation effects or knock on effects that help peopole understand the problem. It is a complex condition with lots of interdependencies and cross-over impacts.

Are we just producing lists which just as lists don't impress professionals or the public at large?  Are we sufficiently qualifying or explaining the impact of these traits? Are some traits not as valid or effective in explaining autism? Are some traits not really autism at all?

IntenseWorld says "I'm not talking about an endless list of complaints, I know there will be a core of applicable behaviours and traits".

But what is that core? Is it just the triad of impairments, because that on its own doesn't adequately explain behaviours. It tells you there are these behaviours. But both professionals and the public seem to be having a great deal of difficulty understanding why.

I do think the triad of impairments is simplistic, and as you have said many a time, does not accurately reflect the daily experience of an autistic person.

I keep pointing out that the triad is a diagnostic tool, not a definition of day-to-day difficulties.

Great we have this Push for Action campaign to increase awareness. But it is still an immense uphill struggle. I think there is an urgent need to better understand what it is we are trying to explain to health professionals and the public to gain their sympathy and understanding. 

I'm 63. I had an adult diagnosis about 10 years ago. OK my Asperger's is at the mild or manageable end, and I haven't needed to access services. So I may be a bit out of order, where many people on here have much more marked difficulties, if I try to relate my perceptions to theirs.

But there is a long standing problem of getting autism to be taken seriously by health professionals including GPs. And you can argue that's just down to prejudices and blinkered professionalism (well I do air that view on here often enough myself!).

Back in the 70s, if you didn't get diagnosed with something more psychotic, with associated inappropriate medication, or treated only for conventional depression, many people manifesting symptoms we would now class as autistic spectrum were simply brushed off as having immaturity problems or social inadequacy.

In the latter half of the 70s, working closely with students, I remember being told by a GP how so much of their resources were taken up with people who couldn't sort themselves out properly, due to immaturity or inadequacy issues they could sort for themselves.

In the 80s and 90s most people with these symptoms, if not requiring more marked intervention, were simply foisted off with relaxation exercises, assertiveness training and psyco mumbo jumbo packages like parent-adult-child, that were supposed to be a cure all for social inadequacy.

We've really only seen much progress in adult diagnosis within the last decade, and that includes many whose difficulties weren't picked up in school. And we are still witnessing extraordinary failures in support post transition from teenage to adult, for people with a diagnosis.

You have to ask yourselves why?  Is it purely down to ignorance, or a conspiracy to keep down the numbers diagnosed in order to save money?

In the last decade before I retired I was engaged in disability support at the teaching level in a university, liasing with student services to support colleagues to support students as well as working directly with students. I was there for the beginnings of the progressive increase in undergraduates and postgraduates with autism diagnoses.

Not only did I gain experience of students on the spectrum and their support needs, I also witnessed public perception, and perception of people there to help. Autism generated a lot of adverse reactions, mostly because the behaviours seemed to many totally disproportionate from the contexts they arose in, and meant a lot of advocacy, trying to explain to others why things happened that didn't make sense.

I've also been on disability working groups at local authority level, and seen similar conflicts and issues.

Many parents on here report the public reaction of other parents and bystanders if their AS children have a meltdown or other behavioural reaction. The public invariably perceive it as an upbringing issue. OK there's a need to educate the public, but it is proving difficult to get this across.

The same, however, happens with adults. Many people's reactions to behavioural issues in autism are unsympathetic, especially if an individual otherwise seems able. Educating the professionals and public isn't making any headway.

A large part of the problem is that some things people on the spectrum complain about, or offer as explanation for unusual behaviours, don't seem credible to others, or seem to be close to general experience where other people manage.

OK collective/cumulative impact of many traits is part of the problem - a trait may be less significant on its own, but collectively with other traits becomes a serious handicap.  Elsewhere there are qualifications that can be made about the frequency, persistence, disorientation effects or knock on effects that help peopole understand the problem. It is a complex condition with lots of interdependencies and cross-over impacts.

Are we just producing lists which just as lists don't impress professionals or the public at large?  Are we sufficiently qualifying or explaining the impact of these traits? Are some traits not as valid or effective in explaining autism? Are some traits not really autism at all?

IntenseWorld says "I'm not talking about an endless list of complaints, I know there will be a core of applicable behaviours and traits".

But what is that core? Is it just the triad of impairments, because that on its own doesn't adequately explain behaviours. It tells you there are these behaviours. But both professionals and the public seem to be having a great deal of difficulty understanding why.

I keep pointing out that the triad is a diagnostic tool, not a definition of day-to-day difficulties.

Great we have this Push for Action campaign to increase awareness. But it is still an immense uphill struggle. I think there is an urgent need to better understand what it is we are trying to explain to health professionals and the public to gain their sympathy and understanding. 

longman said:

Re IntenseWorld's conclusion - I think we are in danger of losing credibility by identifying too many things as traits of autism which aren't. You have to ask why else are health professionals not taking us seriously - unless you believe in conspiracies - they simply see us as making too much fuss about things they don't see as issues (rightly or wrongly).

I think you have misunderstood me this time Longman.  I'm not talking about an endless list of complaints, I know there will be a core of applicable behaviours and traits.

longman said:

Re IntenseWorld's conclusion - I think we are in danger of losing credibility by identifying too many things as traits of autism which aren't. You have to ask why else are health professionals not taking us seriously - unless you believe in conspiracies - they simply see us as making too much fuss about things they don't see as issues (rightly or wrongly).

If we had a clearer definition of what are real issues with autism we might better press our arguments.

I think anyone that has not lived with ASD, whether it is a family member or themselves, will always be somewhat dismissive because its difficult to imagine how difficult it is day in, day out.  I know professionals should be more aware and should take you seriously but the hard cold reality is that the majority of them don't.  Most of them don't even listen properly when you talk to them let alone take it in and think about what you are telling them.

Thanks misskittycat, you have provided a good illustration. It's just your posting wasn't there when I posted mine, but came up as an alert on email, and when I went back on, your reply was before my last posting.

I think this probably happens a lot, if people don't have opportunities to sound out their experiences with others.

Re IntenseWorld's conclusion - I think we are in danger of losing credibility by identifying too many things as traits of autism which aren't. You have to ask why else are health professionals not taking us seriously - unless you believe in conspiracies - they simply see us as making too much fuss about things they don't see as issues (rightly or wrongly).

If we had a clearer definition of what are real issues with autism we might better press our arguments.

Can people give me a few things they do that they aren't sure if they are autistic traits or habits or not?

longman said:

Well perhaps it is just something I've noticed that doesn't apply to anyone else. If everyone feels the same way as you, this thread will quickly become a dead end.

However I've already given an example - not being able to hear what people are saying properly when there is background. My hearing disintegrates - I cannot understand what people are saying to me, if I'm in a room where other people are talking.

I have this too.  I think this is a known problem, althought it might only be anecdotally.

This phenomenon seems to affect some people on the spectrum. It also seems to affect a lot of other people who are not AS, though particularly it seems to affect some people with dyslexia.  The impact may be the same for AS and non-AS people.

Is having this difficulty a problem in the general population unrelated to autism?

Is it something relevant to autism, but which also arises in the general population for different reasons?

Another example is the phenomenon of loss of awareness of surroundings, phasing out, blanking out, switching off - sometimes associated with sensory overload.  I get these switch-outs, and I know other people report it. I've looked into this, and I know others for the same reasons, have looked into this in case it relates to epilepsy, but it seems not to be so. It just seems to be something that affects some people on the spectrum.

Zoning out, another one that is common on the spectrum but is not officially documented as such.

But I've discussed this often with non-AS people who report having similar experiences.

Similar doesn't mean the same.  NTs daydream yes, but I think it's likely different with us, I really struggle to control zoning out when it needs to happen.

Therefore is this phasing/blanking out unrelated to autism, and something that affects lots of people AS or otherwise? Or is it something specific to autism that can occur in the general population owing to different causes? Or is it very specific to autism?

Sorry if I'm flummoxing some people, but I think this is an important question, even if I'm finding it hard to explain it convincingly.

My reason for asking is that health professionals, and other people we depend upon, seem not to take some of our symptoms/traits/concerns seriously. Is that because these are phenomena widely seen in the general population that we might be making too much of?

Are we being perceived as over-reacting to some things which we think of as autistic traits, but which aren't actually autism related, which health professionals don't take seriously because they see them as much more commonplace?

Also, are we undermining our credibility by including in our definition of autism traits things which aren't deemed that significant?

Perhaps we should create a poll with a list of traits in question.  In fact, I might do this on my blog and link to it here.  Of course, it wouldn't be very scientific, but might give us some idea.

OK cumulatively, having a lot of problems impacting together is part of autism, so we do have the argument that it is not the presence of any one issue but the collective interaction of so many that makes life difficult. I'm just trying to introduce a further qualification - are there things we shouldn't really be including in the definition of autism?

I think it's the other way round, there are things we have/suffer which should be included that aren't.

Sorry I didn't get your explanation before, now you've gone in-depth I can see more what you are asking.

I suppose if you question other syndromes/illnesses etc you are likely to find similarities that cross over so therefore it would be the norm for there to be traits that people on the spectrum and people not on the spectrum suffer from?  

I did a bit of research into some physcial differences my daugher has.  I was told she is likely to have a 'genetic condition' because of these differences but when I started researching, I found there were hundreds of possibilities.

Well perhaps it is just something I've noticed that doesn't apply to anyone else. If everyone feels the same way as you, this thread will quickly become a dead end.

However I've already given an example - not being able to hear what people are saying properly when there is background. My hearing disintegrates - I cannot understand what people are saying to me, if I'm in a room where other people are talking.

This phenomenon seems to affect some people on the spectrum. It also seems to affect a lot of other people who are not AS, though particularly it seems to affect some people with dyslexia.  The impact may be the same for AS and non-AS people.

Is having this difficulty a problem in the general population unrelated to autism?

Is it something relevant to autism, but which also arises in the general population for different reasons?

Another example is the phenomenon of loss of awareness of surroundings, phasing out, blanking out, switching off - sometimes associated with sensory overload.  I get these switch-outs, and I know other people report it. I've looked into this, and I know others for the same reasons, have looked into this in case it relates to epilepsy, but it seems not to be so. It just seems to be something that affects some people on the spectrum.

But I've discussed this often with non-AS people who report having similar experiences.

Therefore is this phasing/blanking out unrelated to autism, and something that affects lots of people AS or otherwise? Or is it something specific to autism that can occur in the general population owing to different causes? Or is it very specific to autism?

Sorry if I'm flummoxing some people, but I think this is an important question, even if I'm finding it hard to explain it convincingly.

My reason for asking is that health professionals, and other people we depend upon, seem not to take some of our symptoms/traits/concerns seriously. Is that because these are phenomena widely seen in the general population that we might be making too much of?

Are we being perceived as over-reacting to some things which we think of as autistic traits, but which aren't actually autism related, which health professionals don't take seriously because they see them as much more commonplace?

Also, are we undermining our credibility by including in our definition of autism traits things which aren't deemed that significant?

OK cumulatively, having a lot of problems impacting together is part of autism, so we do have the argument that it is not the presence of any one issue but the collective interaction of so many that makes life difficult. I'm just trying to introduce a further qualification - are there things we shouldn't really be including in the definition of autism?

I think I get what you mean.  I've done it myself (I'm not on the spectrum) I think.

I have a friend though, she's NT but has serious physical and mental health problems.  A few years ago, she had a stroke.  She was only in her mid forties.  She experienced some after effects for a long time.  After not seeing her for a few months, she told me about a probable new diagnosis of early onset dementia - initially diagnosed by a nurse who'd had a bit of training and had asked her a few questions.  My friend is socially isolated so doesn't get the general chit chat with other women often but we started talking about what she was experiencing and I was able to tell her that its not unsual for anyone with a busy demanding family life for to walk into a room, forgetting what she'd gone there for and other little senarios that she'd had of short term memory loss.  Her isolation is probably on a par to those who struggle on the spectrum as is her anxiety so I think you are right, without that social chit chat, you are likely to think that every little thing you experience is connected.

Hope I understood what you were asking?