National Service

The kind of regressive thinking that seems to define conservative thinkers. I've never understood this notion that putting teenagers into the military builds character, or gives you 'real world skills'. Even worse, the idea of sending troubled or anti-social teenagers into the military. Sure, let's teach them how to kill people. 

It's just another attempt to use vacuous nostalgia for 'our lost Britain' as a vote-harvester. 

Clearly, you've not any practical expereince of mIlitary training.

It IS character building, in that it trains you to prioritise service over self interest, it gives you experiences that you'd otherwise never think of having, or have the opportunity to do (unless you have money to burn) and in my case it gave me a very solid training in electronics. It also trained me to know when it is apporpriate to standup and put up a fight and when to run away.

Then of course, you get sent out to kill or be killed in a "bankers war" when they next need to make a "blood sacrifice", unless you are lucky like I was and pick the right time to join. 

And to be fair, whilst I was grateful of the training opportunites for self advancement, I found that I was consistently bullied (for what I now know to be my autism) adn it didn't stop when I went to my forst working unit, in fact some staff sergeant made me a "personal project", and after a mere three months I'd had enough, so I quit.

I managed to do it in such a way, that in addition to making my own escape, I seem to have trashed his career in the process. (as I later found out) Result!! 

And regressive thinking is the opposite of the progressive thinking that produces the useless man-boys and deviants that currenlty hold sway over your thinking and "lead" our country.

Like the current chanractlerless prat who having got us into a shooting war with the Russians (which they have not actually informed us PLEBS that we are in, but the russians know alright who is operating those storm shadow missiles, and it isn't the Ukrainins ) suddenly realsies that he doesn't want to be a "wartime prime minster" so having got us Ba**s deep into that mess, is seeking to bail out quickly and leave the mess to someone else.

Still, we get the leaders that we deserve...

I Sperg said:

And regressive thinking is the opposite of the progressive thinking that produces the useless man-boys and deviants that currenlty hold sway over your thinking and "lead" our country.

You were winning me over until I read the above line. Useless man-boys and deviants? Come on, man. That's some judgmental *** you're spouting there and, once again, harkening back to a time that never was. 

I Sperg said:

And regressive thinking is the opposite of the progressive thinking that produces the useless man-boys and deviants that currenlty hold sway over your thinking and "lead" our country.

You were winning me over until I read the above line. Useless man-boys and deviants? Come on, man. That's some judgmental *** you're spouting there and, once again, harkening back to a time that never was. 

I once attended a talk given by a former SAS soldier. He said that he was clinically diagnosed as a psychopath whilst serving. It helped him do his job. His job was to go into a high-risk situation and kill an " x-ray" - another human who had been identified by the proper authority as requiring to be killed. Job done, no regrets, no remorse. Killing an x-ray was like stamping on a cockroach. He was not in a command position because he was not good at nuanced decision-making, but he was (apparently) very good at his particular job, and the rest of us can sleep easier in our beds because of it.

I Sperg said:

I can't think that any of you really think that we benefit from wise and fair leadership, and that is simply because we are lead by "deviants". There's a HUGE proportion of psychopaths drawn to leadership positions

I can't entirely disagree with this, but I would extend it beyond simply leadership positions. In fact, I would argue that both the military and the police are also paths that would seem attractive to sociopaths and psychopaths. I certainly don't share the common desire to venerate people in these positions simply because they are the military or the police. 

Do I think we benefit from 'wise and fair' leadership? Not at all. Power draws the weak, and that is a major failing of any hierarchical society. Always has been. Any modern election, say, in the UK (where I was born) and the US (where I live) often comes down to a decision between the lesser of two evils. 

I have a problem with your use of the word deviant, though. By definition (actions or behaviors that go against social norms or expectations) Plato, whom you quote, was a deviant. Most of those who have propelled the species forward have been deviants. It tales a deviant to push society's norms until they change. And it takes the norms to look at someone and denounce them as deviant. 

I would imagine this point does not need explaining to a group of us NDs. 

Thank you Capatin Grover for extending me both forms of courtesy, reading all of my post, and commenting in an even handed and fair manner.  

I make no apology for expressing an unpopular opinion, in my defence, I keep it to a minimum and do my utmost to let other opinons that I find unpopular slide past without comment. I am often surprised when people take strong objections to some of my comments and start accusing me of being someone who I am not.

I unlike Debbie and many others here have a Y chromosome and some of othe other traits associated with Masculinity. To a masculine point of view, when actually doing a dangerous or arduous task "man-boys" are useless.

During my spell in service as a young "man-boy", I could see that quite clearly in addition to it being shouted at me, of course! AS an example of my own uselssness as a "man-boy" in a simualated war scenario I once managed to sleep though an enemy attack. I was vaguely aware of the explosions of thd thunderflashes etc, but no one specifically told me to get up and do something, it was happening soem distance away so I elected to stay alseep...  If I may say, without causing offence, (because I am complaining specifically about myself) "Bloody Useless!!"

I can't think that any of you really think that we benefit from wise and fair leadership, and that is simply because we are lead by "deviants". There's a HUGE proportion of psychopaths drawn to leadership positions, (According to Dr Hare the leader in the field of psychopathy) yet they comprise a tiny portion of the population.. We ARE and pretty much always have been led by deviants.