Persistent deficits in social communication and social interaction

Number said:

inter-species communication...

What is your inter-species?

I'm not sure that's true.....in my inter-species communication.....eye contact is ABSOLUTELY essential....so cultural expectations do not fall within the remit of other species?!

I can only say that not pushing yourself and making an effort to adjust to neurotypical norms guarantees being socially unsuccessful, however, conversely, making an effort does not always guarantee social success.

I did push myself. As autistic people go I’d probably be regarded as unusually successful.

I somehow made it through university then into a very successful career on a salary I still can’t believe sometimes. That wouldn’t be possible without me being an excellent masker. I had some friends from school who stayed part of my life into my 30s with whom I went to lots of social events and I made plenty of work friends (not the same as “real” friends, I realise).

But friends always eventually drop me without falling out and I’ve gotten to the stage where I have no one.

I must have had thousands of social events and opportunities and yet here I am, alone.

Martin said:

I have interaction on a regular basis with one other autistic person, my daughter. Being good at communicating with other autistics is a vanishingly small advantage to me, whereas being able to communicate effectively with neurotypicals is of immense advantage.

Yes I completely understand what you mean, we autistics are a minority group in a predominant neurotype world.

Martin said:

The vast majority of the people in society at large are neurotypical; if you do not live in an autistic bubble - and surely the majority of autistics do not - then finding friends and romantic partners means, by default, finding neurotypical friends and partners. If, as an autistic person, you can put neurotypicals at ease and smooth the way to deeper connections by outwardly confirming to neurotypical communication norms, then making friendships and romantic partnerships becomes much easier.

Yes I understand, in some ways it's about finding a balance between both autistic and predominant neurotype cultures whilst still meeting your needs including for deep connections.

You may find this graphic interesting:

Ausomely Autistic said:

If your definition of socially successful is willing to perform superficial interactions, then yes I understand. But to be honest the majority of neurotypical interactions are very surface level.

 I wouldn’t use the term socially successful but to me that means a very different thing. I deem success by genuine meaningful connections with a sense of belonging with deep interactions and discussions which by our very nature, we autistics achieve very naturally.

I have interaction on a regular basis with one other autistic person, my daughter. Being good at communicating with other autistics is a vanishingly small advantage to me, whereas being able to communicate effectively with neurotypicals is of immense advantage.

If you wish to achieve 'meaningful connections' with any one, then the 'surface level' mundanities are a vital preliminary step. The vast majority of the people in society at large are neurotypical; if you do not live in an autistic bubble - and surely the majority of autistics do not - then finding friends and romantic partners means, by default, finding neurotypical friends and partners. If, as an autistic person, you can put neurotypicals at ease and smooth the way to deeper connections by outwardly confirming to neurotypical communication norms, then making friendships and romantic partnerships becomes much easier.

Martin said:

If the majority of society, and society in the UK and the rest of  'The West' certainly do, demand it for their interpersonal comfort, then being an autistic person who can meet this demand is a very definite social advantage.

I understand your point but that’s like saying if you speak a different language you are at a disadvantage which you are to some degree.

Martin said:

The original poster was asking why some autistics are more socially successful than others, in this context my example is, I think, quite apposite and illustrative.

If your definition of socially successful is willing to perform superficial interactions, then yes I understand. But to be honest the majority of neurotypical interactions are very surface level.

 I wouldn’t use the term socially successful but to me that means a very different thing. I deem success by genuine meaningful connections with a sense of belonging with deep interactions and discussions which by our very nature, we autistics achieve very naturally.

The etiology of eye contact is of no importance from a social viewpoint. If the majority of society, and society in the UK and the rest of  'The West' certainly do, demand it for their interpersonal comfort, then being an autistic person who can meet this demand is a very definite social advantage.

The original poster was asking why some autistics are more socially successful than others, in this context my example is, I think, quite apposite and illustrative.

Martin said:

both with eye contact difficulties,

Eye contact is just a non autistic cultural expectation though. This becomes even more obvious when you realise that some other cultures around the world find the social expectation of eye contact offensive or too intimate.

Some autistic people can see that if they wish to achieve their goals in life that they have to push themselves and do uncomfortable things, others either cannot see this, or have genuine limitations that make it impossible.

For example, I make apparently 'normal' levels of eye contact, but I do so entirely consciously, I time when and for how long I make eye contact when talking to someone. I do not have a neurotypical unconscious ability to do this, but I compensate for this by using my conscious intellect. As a result the neurotypical majority find me comfortable to talk to, and that helps with making friendly connections. An autistic unwilling or unable to make such a concession to neurotypical norms, would find it much more difficult to make friendly connections. Therefore, you can have two people who are equally autistic, both with eye contact difficulties, producing two very different social outcomes.

Amerantin (former member) said:

So why is it some of us are completely alone and isolated while others seem to have friends, partners and active social lives?

It's a huge spectrum and you have to also factor in intelligence, personality, lifestyle etc. Some autistic people provide motivational talks at huge conferences (Temple Grandin) while others present the news (Melanie Sykes).

As you can see often on this forum, a lot of people are wondering how to make friends but then don't do anything about it. They just sit about complaining.

It seems counterintuitive to autistic people, but you've got to push yourself.

Get out and meet people and deal with the anxiety and sensory issues. Pretty easy to start, just sign-up here and go to some meetings: https://www.meetup.com. Or volunteer at a local charity etc.

As for dating, I've always been single by choice. Not interested in marriage etc.

My partner and friends are all neurodivergent too, so that helps. They're not all autistic, but there's enough overlap in experiences with people with things like ADHD that it's a lot easier to find common ground and not misinterpret each other's words/behaviour.

It's also worth bearing in mind that although the diagnostic criteria say that autistic people have deficits in these areas, that's only true in comparison to neurotypical people. If you think of those 'deficits' as being the natural autistic way of communicating it makes a lot more sense that we often do much better with this stuff when we're around other autistic people.

The obvious answer is that some Autists are better at learning the skills that they need in the world than other Autists are.

Some can probably face being around others more often. The more you can be around others, the more you will learn.  But it's exceedingly painful to be around others all the time. So many on the spectrum will become heavily socially withdrawn or take their own life.