Not telling the truth

Thanks for that Frozen…. I’ll go check it out!

Hi Take5, I sympathise with your problems. I would say it would be helpful to put some paragraphs when you post. It is more difficult for people to read a very long string of words if there are not spaces between them. Paragraphs are helpful. No offence intended, just trying to help.

I am not judging your problems, I hoenstly do not understand. I wish you all the best!

Thank you so much everyone for responding to my post. It’s helped me to further understand myself and what’s going on. The more time that goes by I gather more information so I can finally seek an assessment once I’m armed and ready.

Fawning I think is ussually talked about with c-ptsd like what you said you found. I know a YTer made a video on fawning and autism, I havnet watched it yet but I think it was Orion Kelly who made it. 

Autonomistic said:

I think I do this because I was always taught as a child that what other people think about you is so important.

That is fundamentally untrue and can form the basis of social anxiety. You were taught to ignore your own needs and put others first, no matter the personal cost.

I agree, you shouldn't harm your self for the benefit of just anyone. But this depends a great deal on what the desired outcome is.

Caring what a child thinks of us is relevant to how we choose to speak around them. Children can be an impetus for all kinds of positive and healthy change. We might find we form new and good 'habits/disciplines' because we care about their perception of us.

Sometimes caring about how we come across or are perceived is important to facilitate a new relationship, but on the basis that the ethics surrounding our decision have to do with everyone's well-being and growth. We may catch ourselves investing too much or too little in a way that's inappropriate or not quite how we would want to be treated. It's perfectly fine to wish to be someone others remember as kind and considerate, though with our eccentricities. 

This can also matter when one's livelihood is a consequence. But again, it's far better to work on focusing on building the character of the self than always trying to worry about, read (and misread) others. We're not telepathic, but we kindness costs little. Everything is in relation-with. It's good to become someone I'd appreciate a relationship with. 

Children are taught in ways to curb basic being within society so the disruption isn't cruel and costly (breaking a vase at someone's house or letting the entire room know just how gigantic Auntie Iris is. Most "Rules" require a bit of digging into. I feel it's productive to understand the underlying principle, so to hold others to it, should they require an unreasonable and obscure expectation from you.

Thank you for that. I’ll take some time to read through later 

Autistic people tend to be intrinsically honest and direct. What you are doing sounds more for the benefit of meeting the expectations of others and protecting yourself than any malevolent intent to deceive. I would agree that it sounds like fawning, which is a type of masking behaviour generally to protect ourselves.

Take5 said:

I think I do this because I was always taught as a child that what other people think about you is so important.

That is fundamentally untrue and can form the basis of social anxiety. You were taught to ignore your own needs and put others first, no matter the personal cost.

Take5 said:

I can exaggerate to people if it keeps me out of trouble particularly with my partner as she has a fuse that’s about a millimetre long.

This is an example of you doing this as a pre-emptive defensive mechanism.

Take5 said:

The only thing I can’t relate to is that it says it normally stems from childhood trauma and repeated trauma at that (so not a single traumatic event) I was lucky to have a good childhood as in how my parents were with me.

Very few autistic children emerge un-traumatised. No matter how good your home life, at school you may have been subjected to bullying or ostracism or suffered constantly invalidated sensory trauma. The parts of the brain that are activated as a result of what what society deems to be traumatic incidents are actually activated in the brains of autistic people as a result or relatively minor and everyday events. The effects are no different but how society perceives them is.

Some articles that may be helpful:

https://sunshine-support.org/masking-and-fawning-our-survival-instincts

https://embrace-autism.com/the-link-between-autism-and-ptsd/

https://themighty.com/topic/autism-spectrum-disorder/childhood-trauma-autism/

https://transformingautism.org/traumainautism/

Hey Frozen 

Really interesting reading up on Fawning, never heard of this before but what it describes is exactly what I tend to do. The only thing I can’t relate to is that it says it normally stems from childhood trauma and repeated trauma at that (so not a single traumatic event) I was lucky to have a good childhood as in how my parents were with me. Everything else though fits perfectly with me and it seems to be with over empathetic people pleasers. It also says as a result you attract the wrong sort of person, usually someone who would target this kind of weakness. 
Quite scary stuff really 

This sounds kind of like fawning to me, which is less of lying but more of a survival tactic to avoid conflict. Im not an expert on fawning though so I could be wrong. I think it is more common in autism and c-ptsd.

Honesty is a subject I've had a complicated relationship with, myself. I've always tried to be an honest, moral person, because at the end of the day I'm the one that's got to live with the choices I make. But especially in recent times, I've found my honesty has managed to incite mistrust from people I care about. Being honest for honesty's sake for some reason isn't a good enough motive.

On the other hand, I do feel your need to be there for others. For me, it's to the point that I dislike admitting that I'm having difficulties, for fear that I'm causing them problems and they'll dislike me for it. A... not totally unfounded fear, sadly.

But in the end, being dishonest with the people close to you might give you some breathing room in the short term, but the long term effects would rarely be worth it. If they don't know what the problem is, they can't help you. If they do know, they might not be able to help you anyway. But at the very least it opens up the possibility that things can get better. That and it means you'd be treating the people you care about with more respect, even if things get hairy. You can hopefully take some solace in that.

Sorry if this isn't all that helpful. This is a subject I'm still exploring in my own life.