Published on 12, July, 2020
I’m a 49 year old man and I was diagnosed with ASD last year, my ASD is pretty much textbook Asperger’s, high functioning, organised, sensitive to bright light, sudden noises and unexpected events.
I have become increasingly aware of my difficulties navigating societal expectations and the inconsistencies of the world we live in, like many people with ASD, I need clear instructions and rely on a self built framework to understand the world.
This morning I attempted to discuss a particular topical issue with my partner (who is neurotypical as far as we know) with familiarly unsuccessful results! So I thought I’d talk to the ASD community about it instead…
There are so many inconsistencies in society with regard to behaviour, the most obvious example as I see it are football managers can (and do) scream and shout and swear at referees regularly but if I raise my voice I’m committing ‘common assault’. I could write a huge list of similar inconsistencies, The BBC has a very clear agenda towards equality and inclusivity which is commendable but they promote and televise horse racing which is blatant animal cruelty…I really could go on and on!..
But focussing on this mornings topic, which is the disparity and inconsistency between two events, the first being the recent worldwide shaming of Luis Rubiales (President of Spanish football who kissed a player on the lips during the World Cup celebrations), the second being a conversation between my partners Sister and her male friend, where he openly talked about his masturbation routine.
I am really struggling to understand how the former is an offence resulting in criminal prosecution for sexual assault and Rubiales being forced to resign and being publicly shamed, and the latter being ‘just a conversation between two friends’.
Why aren’t both events treated the same way? I fully understand that there are differences in circumstances, but what is the criteria for judgement? Rubiales knew the woman he kissed and it was something that appeared to happen spontaneously in a moment of shared euphoria, in that context I feel that he’s been harshly treated, however, if society says that his actions where unconsentual and therefore ‘assault’…OK, I understand, the parameter is consent…but my sisters friend hadn’t been given consent to reveal information of a sexual nature…but this is considered perfectly acceptable…so it isn’t about consent then?
So I asked what the difference is, and I was told one event was colleagues and the other friends…so it’s about the relationship status (colleague or friend) Meaning if you know someone well enough to consider them a friend you can say anything to them, regardless of it’s appropriateness? Surely not.
Personally I should add, I wouldn’t kiss a woman on the lips without consent or reveal information of my sexual activity to a woman! Because I wouldn’t feel comfortable with either and I would consider both acts inappropriate.
it’s a minefield out there! And there’s no map, no consistency, and seemingly no logic to it.
I would really love to hear from others about this, with ASD or not, sadly I can’t talk to my partner about it because it descends into an argument where I’m accused of overthinking or my confusion and need for an explanation/discussion is simply dismissed.
Craig
Temple Grandin is a bit of a hero to me. I like her Being.
The vast majority of my relationships are very difficult - and I think it is because I don't feel the need to change other peoples perspectives on things, but I am very keen to understand them and their reasons for having them AND I'm not shy about expressing my own (always evolving and malleable,) on the same basis. What I would call dialogue. In my experience, this is no longer an accepted basis for interaction with people. It leaves me a bit lonely and perplexed on a whole series of matters.....although I am thankful to have a handful of interlocutors who do hold different views and are prepared to talk as I do.
It's tough. Stick with it.
Word!
100% this! Surely there should be calm and open discussion which enables people neurodivergent or not, to grow, understand and develop. That’s why I’m here, because that is very difficult in my relaonship. Thanks for your responses
Social norms degraded to this level…absolutely! Why anyone would share that sort of information with anyone male or female is utterly bewildering to me, glad I’m not alone in that regard, I appreciate your response.
Thanks for the tips.
Number said:I love words .... but they are on a very narrow bandwidth of communication in my opinion.
While they are narrow, they are easily crafted at leisure and can wield the surgical precision of scalpels.
That said, many posters here struggle with grammar, syntax and content which make them a challenging medium if you expect precision and accuracy.
The key seems to be reading the audience and adjusting your expectation and styles to suit.
As "there is more complexity in our limited understanding of reality, Number ---than we could possibly imagine" this bloke called NAS86592 just wrote
I love words .... but they are on a very narrow bandwidth of communication in my opinion.
The plethora of other aspects of communication both between ourselves (as humans) and with our cousins (the animals) and whomever or whatever else you feel you communicate with.....has been sidelined and deemed less important than I personally believe them to be.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio .... than are dreamt of in your philosophy" as a bloke called Will, once wrote down.
I am the opposite, I need time to gather my thoughts which is why I am useless thinking on my feet. I much prefer the written word. Can you imagine me --an autistic trying to cold call as a bed salesman. lol I was hopeless. I was desperate for a job at that time so I got this commission only position. I never sold a single bed but I did learn a lesson how unsuitable I was as a salesman.
Racism, homophobia and sexism are very important matters.
I like to understand who thinks what and why. I want to learn.
Some people are inclined and skilled at speaking with (or to) a mass audience, whereas I am not.
Some people are inclined and skilled at communicating via the current keyboard broadcast methodological Zeitgeist, whereas I am not.
The written word, in public fora, is my least reliable and least efficient mode of outward communication.
When I "challenge", it is in person, either 1-2-1 or in a small group where there is, at least, the slimmest hope that either myself, or my interlocutors, will be prompted into change through a dialogue and the physical presence of our beings.
That's just how I am Debbie.
.
Number said:If "opinions or ideas" cause me to feel "elevated or perplexed" then I like to "explore and discuss" in the first instance not "challenge." This is how I learn.
I think that if a comment isn't offensive, then that makes sense.
However, if a comment or raft of words, as they often are here, brings offense, then challenging is the only option available to me (and others who feel passionately about certain subjects).
Otherwise, the world would be full of people spouting offensive opinions left right and centre unchallenged.
If someone posts sexist comments here, I have a lifetime of knowledge about this subject.
I will challenge them.
If someone posts racist comments here, I have a lifetime of observing this behaviour (including my parents).
The same goes for homophobia.
Challenging = change in society.
This has nothing to do with your comment about being perplexed.
Of course, if someone's comments cause perplexity, then 'explore and discuss' would also be my modis operandi.
If "opinions or ideas" cause me to feel "elevated or perplexed" then I like to "explore and discuss" in the first instance not "challenge." This is how I learn.
Of course, yes.
I did not say there will be disappointment, I said prepare for some. Be prepared = I think that is wise.
Number said:although if you have only arrived presuming that only open, free-flowing and constructive dialogue and exploration of complex ideas occur here.....prepare yourself for some disappointment.
It is true that uncomplex discussions occur, which is a great relief, as our minds are complex enough so it's good to turn them off sometimes and just 'chat'.
If opinions cause offence, they should be challenged.
If you see challenging offensive ideas as unconstructive, then I would disagree.
If ideas hadn't been challenged over the centuries, the freedoms that now exist in society wouldn't be in place (but you know that).
So, some clarification here would be good if you are happy to do so.
Number said:if you have only arrived presuming that only open, free-flowing and constructive dialogue and exploration of complex ideas occur here.....prepare yourself for some disappointment.
I see plenty of that constructive dialogue going on - also a free sharing of differing viewpoints and little conflict.
Can you expand on why you think it will be dissapointing please?
Hello Craig, I am Number.
Rocketboy said: I need clear instructions and rely on a self built framework to understand the world.
= me too.
Rocketboy said:it’s a minefield out there! And there’s no map, no consistency, and seemingly no logic to it.
= I agree.
Rocketboy said:because it descends into an argument where I’m accused of overthinking or my confusion and need for an explanation/discussion is simply dismissed.
= There is a firm possibility that this outcome will unfold here too.
Nice to have you here - although if you have only arrived presuming that only open, free-flowing and constructive dialogue and exploration of complex ideas occur here.....prepare yourself for some disappointment.
I wish you well.
Kind regards
Number.
Rocketboy said:There are so many inconsistencies in society with regard to behaviour, the most obvious example as I see it are football managers can (and do) scream and shout and swear at referees regularly but if I raise my voice I’m committing ‘common assault’. I could write a huge list of similar inconsistencies, The BBC has a very clear agenda towards equality and inclusivity which is commendable but they promote and televise horse racing which is blatant animal cruelty…I really could go on and on!..
This is a classic autistic issue - we just don't get the rules and when society is in flux (well it always is to a degree) then what rules we have learned are often out of date of just not nuanced enough.
In sport it is acceptable for fans and participants to should and scream - high spirits is often the term used and it is tolerated. For you doing it in a non sports setting is a different set of rules and you should express more restraint.
Horse racing without whips is not that cruel to my knowledge (I admittedly don't know much about it) and I believe whips have been phased out from most races over time. Certainly I've seen jockeys who overuse them suffer a backlash.
Where you see inconsistencies in society if it just a case of you have to learn the set of precedent of sub rules that take over in those specific situations.
These rules change with time, with context and with the people around you. Not easy for us to get our heads around which is a big reason why so many of us become reclusive.
My suggestion is to learn to accept that it is inconsistent, cut back your interaction in sutuaitons where you are not sure of how to behave and learn to enjoy the spectator sport of life where you can.