Why did I find friendships so stressful?

Yeah, I didn't really know any better. It's hard to not feel bad knowing the damage that I'd done.

I'm mainly trying to get rid of my anxiety around the whole thing.

I've never been comfortable with group socialising either Ann, and much prefer one-to-one too.

Ann :) said:

I tried to 'force' it/ mask but that never lasted long or really worked.

It doesn't really - but it seems very much trial and error when you don't naturally and implicitly understand the rules of social interaction.

These days, in person communications for me are generic and superficial - that doesn't mean I'm not pleasant in my dealings, but I don't get involved. It's armour, of a sort, but that's ok, I think. 

I'm more myself here than in the real world and open to friendship, should it develop- but I won't push it either, I'm content to let life unfold as it will in that respect. 

Hi there. Thank you for sharing your experiences and I don’t think you were doing anything deliberately wrong in how you were trying to make friendships. I used to try and get people’s attention and “chase after them” myself, so to speak because I just wanted to fit in anywhere and often this behaviour just got me into trouble. And yet, it seems like that’s what people do to make friends or if they have already made them. I don’t have any social groups, just one pen pal who lives in South America and I trust him with all my heart. In face to face I’m very afraid of crowds and often people just walk past me, even if they know who I am. So I always feel like I’m doing something wrong and I get hysterical, even around my own family. I’m a strong believer of that nobody understands what we go through unless they have experienced it themselves and it’s not our fault for suffering so much. All I can say is well done for having a kind heart and if you need to talk again then please message me any time. My name is Samuel. :-)

Same here. The moment I feel like I'm having to be someone I'm not for someone is a clear sign that it won't work.

Pegg said:

Friendship - in my limited experience it either does itself naturally, due to the strength of shared connections, or it doesn't happen at all. 

I agree with this. You have put it really well. This has been my experience as well. I tried to 'force' it/ mask but that never lasted long or really worked. And that's not really what friendship is about. 

Ditto for me

Pegg said:

I don't have those skills, myself.

Friendship - in my limited experience it either does itself naturally, due to the strength of shared connections, or it doesn't happen at all. 

I think if you're ND and don't pick up on all the baffling non-verbals by which NTs communicate, social interaction is generally difficult, friendship more so, since it involves expanding and deepening social connections. 

I've known a few people who have learned to mask and interact in such a way as to be socially successful, it is possible. I don't have those skills, myself. 

Totally identify with this, yes.. 

Call me a dullard, but I found life too short to allow myself to get so wound up over my lack of friendships. Through trial and tribulation I must have consciously created a mask or defense layer --- call it what you like --- as I have had lifelong practise with going my own way. 

It is in the nature of women to bond in a much greater degree than with men. I had an uncle who I was told travelled the length and breadth of the USA by freight rail in box cars looking for work during the great depression. Ok, those were unusual times, but nevertheless any man worth his salt -- in my view, and despite his 'toxic masculinity' --- will support himself however necessary it is to achieve that with appropriate action. Yes, I recognise this is a contradictory comment to make on this type of forum with people like us with our many autistic limitations. I was brought up with a work ethic and the reality that whatever you want, you work hard for within your abilities to do so. 

My point is this. I don't know if this was a past scheme of some sort or if it was the result of careless authority but our environmental fresh water supply is awash with estrogen as a result of birth control medication first introduced in 1961. This hormone can't be filtered out and keeps on accumulating. Is it any wonder that men have become more feminized and with a gamut of gender ID consequences now creeping into our educational system?  some body let this happen.

Sorry, but I diverted from my opening paragraph and went off on a rant.

Bimmer Lady said:

I also tried very hard to maintain the friendships, or so I thought, but it seems I never met peoples expectations or demands - either I'm too OTT or extremely lacking/neglectful, literally no balance is the feedback those who bothered, gave me. More often than not, when I try to address built up tensions (yes Im not assertive at the time and takes a while to 'work out' emotions, discussions, opinions etc), I've been often met with fury and then ghosted. It was the same through secondary, then sixth form and post school & @ work = same effect different group and no-ones interested in maintaining a friendship with me post 'confrontation' - I say confrontation as I honestly go in with problem solving mindset desperate to save the scraps of friendship, but am often met with fury, which confuses and stresses the hell out of me and never fails to blindside me.

I have often tried to assert myself in friendships, as a means of asking where we stand. I even clarify whether we're friends or acquaintances. Of course, what I didn't realise is that the fact I even have to ask suggests that something is up which I haven't really tackled.

Most responses were fine and clear, some people it rubbed up the wrong way but I thought I was clear with it. It was a misjudged thing and I kick myself but I don't think it was a great loss in those cases.

Bimmer Lady said:

Moving forward, I have recently come to a realisation that seems obvious to apparently everyone else, but not me - people are NOT machines and they are entitled to change their minds, deviate from the norm or be completely selfish.

I have had a few people who felt differently about the friendship at some point down the line. I had no issue with that, but when I ask them if everything's okay (because I've had my suspicions) and then I find out that they've felt like it's not for them for a couple of months, I feel really guilty.

So many questions. Why, even in our capacity as friends at that time, did they not feel comfortable enough to speak to me? Did they think that I was going to blow up at them? Yes, it would have been difficult for me to hear but that's not their responsibility, especially if they've been really kind about it.

Bimmer Lady said:

The other problem I have, is later in life I thought a healthy way to manage friendships especially, is to 'lay down the law' (I really enjoy reading law and the parameters they create in society), have very strict boundaries and then if those are crossed = lock them off/ghost them. I had neither the tolerance (too much to process) or understanding to query this way of setting boundaries and emotionally checked out so never felt guilt/protected myself. Now I begin to wonder which people were actually OK, but I was intolerant of because I thought my boundaries were reasonable/normal. Not having friends to share/discuss only impacts this further.

I regret not setting clear boundaries at the beginning, but I go back to how mechanical I used to be. Like if I didn't hear from someone for a while, I decided to cut them off. In this case, that's removing them from my Instagram followers list. I did that with many people.

I regretted it down the line because all that did was made me more conscious about my follow count. 

I also wonder how many good connections I ruined because of that. It would have been better to talk to them but I just didn't know how. What to say, how to say it etc.

Bimmer Lady said:

I would like to make more ND friends (as scary as that is, I cant combat loneliness locked away indoors staying in my comfort zone, this terrifies me btw), I was hoping that ND people would 'get me', but appreciate again, we're all humans and from HMO25's post, I can see that is naïve. But I still think Ive got a better shot in this 'realm'/community.

In many respects they may well still get you but every ND person is different which is something I would often forget. I also tended to go by the assumption that a neurotypical just wouldn't get me either.

It's about communication and if both parties are willing to do it, then you'll surely be okay.

Bimmer Lady said:

The comment about spreadsheets - wow, I immediately thought 'genius'...lol I have a thing for spreadsheets. But yes accept why this wasnt actually effective. So already have learnt from someone else without going through the process myself, which I imagine was very time consuming HMO25. So I am grateful for your thinking and post!

I thought it was smart at the time, but it just added (and put a spotlight on) my anxiety rather than help it.

Managing it wasn't very time consuming, but looking at it every day, making changes based on tiny things that happened between me and that person - it quickly spiralled into something unhealthy.

There's definitely alternatives.

There are a lot of comments in this thread that resonate with me.

As it stands I literally have 1 friend (from childhood) in another country. As I'm recovering from my relationship, I'm trying to learn more about the me inside, not the masking me, and obviously I've looked at my relationships in general over the years.

I've always been able to 'attract' friends/boyfriends (people tell me I'm pretty/attractive so I think this is the main draw, lol i doubt its the way i shut down verbally they think is cool), but sustaining the relationships and in a healthy way has never seemed to work for me.

Ive realised throughout school, my closest friends werent actually very nice to me and I tolerated their bullying just to fit in/feel normal. But also I was desperate to learn, imitate and practice my masking. I realised I had 'groups' of friends depending on interests/context but only actually felt comfortable either alone, or with the other so called "weirdos" - for which I was regularly chastised as to "why" I would actually want to hang around with these so called "weirdos" (ND more than likely I realise now). Even the so called weirdos would tell me not to be seen with them as it would draw unwanted attention to them so it strained our friendships - on quite a few occasions I built up the courage and felt bold enough to address my so called friends in defence of the "weirdos". But I then learnt that my punishment was to be given the cold shoulder from these groups of friends. Then I'm having almost secret friendships, which was insane. I should have chosen more wisely and stood up, I do regret this.

I also tried very hard to maintain the friendships, or so I thought, but it seems I never met peoples expectations or demands - either I'm too OTT or extremely lacking/neglectful, literally no balance is the feedback those who bothered, gave me. More often than not, when I try to address built up tensions (yes Im not assertive at the time and takes a while to 'work out' emotions, discussions, opinions etc), I've been often met with fury and then ghosted. It was the same through secondary, then sixth form and post school & @ work = same effect different group and no-ones interested in maintaining a friendship with me post 'confrontation' - I say confrontation as I honestly go in with problem solving mindset desperate to save the scraps of friendship, but am often met with fury, which confuses and stresses the hell out of me and never fails to blindside me.

Moving forward, I have recently come to a realisation that seems obvious to apparently everyone else, but not me - people are NOT machines and they are entitled to change their minds, deviate from the norm or be completely selfish. This has been a revelation to me because I never understood if someone told me a problem for example, they talk through the problem, come up with a solution and then go and take a very different course of action than what we discussed. For me this was absolutely mind blowing and indicated that person couldnt be trusted/have a moral compass - purely because they'd changed their mind or found a different solution. People are not machines, their emotions are not set in stone and thats what makes them human. Just because I think a certain way, doesnt mean the rest of the world has come to that so called logical conclusion and I myself am far from perfect, so its not actually logical is it?

However on the flip side, I then allowed people around me who used this to abuse me - told me that I have to accept these disparities and not question/disapprove because clearly according to them I "dont get it". In this case, the more failings, the more I began to overcompensate the completely wrong people - buying gifts, lending money etc

The other problem I have, is later in life I thought a healthy way to manage friendships especially, is to 'lay down the law' (I really enjoy reading law and the parameters they create in society), have very strict boundaries and then if those are crossed = lock them off/ghost them. I had neither the tolerance (too much to process) or understanding to query this way of setting boundaries and emotionally checked out so never felt guilt/protected myself. Now I begin to wonder which people were actually OK, but I was intolerant of because I thought my boundaries were reasonable/normal. Not having friends to share/discuss only impacts this further.  

I would like to make more ND friends (as scary as that is, I cant combat loneliness locked away indoors staying in my comfort zone, this terrifies me btw), I was hoping that ND people would 'get me', but appreciate again, we're all humans and from HMO25's post, I can see that is naïve. But I still think Ive got a better shot in this 'realm'/community.

The comment about spreadsheets - wow, I immediately thought 'genius'...lol I have a thing for spreadsheets. But yes accept why this wasnt actually effective. So already have learnt from someone else without going through the process myself, which I imagine was very time consuming HMO25. So I am grateful for your thinking and post!

Im a work in progress and by taking this leap into this community, I hope to navigate this issue through other's learned/lived experiences and advice. If only there was a rigid framework for us all eh lol?! Sorry for the long ramblings, but it regularly stresses me out.

Many years ago at an early stage of my immigration to these shores I too discovered the differences between a 1-to-1 engagement and with a group of two or more. Because I am always considered an outsider owing to my accent the other two (+) parties would --- in  sometimes subtle ways and other times not so subtle --- take the p-ss, but this NEVER happenes in a 1-to-1 engagement. This has become a hell of a discouragement for me to socialise simply because I find this attitude sooo wearisome with initial contact. I can deal with it after getting to know the other parties but even then I still find 'P' taking tiresome and unnecessary.

There definitely are, there's so many things I never even thought to pick up on yet my neurotypical counterparts had no big issue with it.

I wish I let my guard down more. 

I have a friend who told me that I seemed like know-it-all in conversation when he was greeting used to me, which he told me years later, but he also told me that he realised over time that it was just the way I talked and that I was cool, I’m inclined to believe him on that because I find him to be honest to a fault..

DeSpereaux said:

I find that there is a rule to group-socialising and another for one-to-ones,

Same here - part of it here is knowing when to have my say.

I tend to end up interrupting or talking about something that people have just moved on from so I come across as rude or slow.

I also can take time to process what is being talked about, what peoples expressions and body language are saying, filtering this through my knowledge of what it signifies and inevitably find myself constantly playing catch up and feeling tired over the mental effort required.

On the bright side if someone asks my opinion on something I tend to have though enough about it to give a meaningful response, but they I think I get seen as being overly academic and snobby.

If they only realised how difficult it can be to do stuff they take for granted and seem to enjoy.

Weirdly enough I find that there is a rule to group-socialising and another for one-to-ones, I have found that I can be ‘me’ to someone and be fine with them, but together with a group I don’t find that I get on the same with that person, even though I haven’t changed my tune at all.  

I get subordinated to the back of the line in a group, as such I choose only to interact one-on-one, if the prospect of friend-of-friend gatherings come into it, I back out all together..

I prefer online socialising as well. In person even 1 on 1 I get so anxious and my throat hurts I get flare ups

Online socialising is much better for me! That's why I love it here so much! ^^

Your friend sounds very lovely. She's lucky to have a friend like you. 

I like one-on-one conversations often more than group settings. I used to do a lot of video calls with friends; they live in different parts of the country so it was easier than organising a meetup anyway! But on the occasion I could just meet up with someone for a coffee I enjoyed it too.

I'm sure your friend would understand though, and hopefully you can meet in the middle with that.

It can be stressful but it is possible to socialise in non stressful ways- i basically just socialise one on one. I like online socialising. Or going for a short walk with someone or maybe a coffee. I do get stressed about longer visits, and I very rarely agree but sometimes I feel like it is not fair not to and I do wish it was easier because I really like my friend. It does end up being nice usually, just need to make sure I have plenty of energy. What makes me sad is that a close friend abroad has repeatedly asked me to visit her, for years- i wish I could but I am too anxious about travelling anc change in routine