Well Longman, you have misunderstood me as I said. I do not see anything irresponsible and we shall just have to agree to disagree on this.
To do that you have to get the experts to include people at the able end of the spectrum in their researches.
You have to get better understanding of bullying in schools.
Most of what you'll find on anti-bullying websites is about physical bullying, extortion, and name calling, as well as internet and mobile phone bullying. A huge amount of money was spent about six years ago in research studies on the use of the "gay" or "***" tags which cause undoubted misery to many and contribute to suicides.
I haven't found any studies on bullying in relation to autistic spectrum. And given so many people on the spectrum report the problem, that's really remiss.
Until you have sufficient understanding of bullying and autism I cannot see anything to be gained by speculating about whether bullied kids (let alone bullied kids on the spectrum) have any predisposition to becoming mass murderers.
I just think its irresponsible, and could lead to more popular myths about autism, rather than anything remotely beneficial.
I tried to explain the thread title, you appear to have misunderstood.
Forthrightness as you know is an Aspie trait. I don't think "beating about the bush" does any favours and will only contribute to the lack of autism awareness. Openness can lead to change.
It may well be, that the individual in question focused his reactions on anti-islamic etc. but that could be because the other inviduals involved had those views and roped him in, as you know, people with Asperger's are often gullible and frequently used by others. I can only speculate of course, I don't know the facts, but it is entirely possible.
Both articles do state he has Asperger's.
This isn't about linking autism to mass murder, that is why it needs discussion, it's about showing the painful and tragic effects that bullying can have. It's about getting bullying issues addressed. It's about giving us the chance to say that we acknowledge this is an extreme reaction, and we aren't all gun-toting extremists too.
I had a search, and as you say some of them address his remarks about bullying, but the majority of them look at his anti-islamic and right wing (equivalent to UK BNP) sentiments (re the former interesting to see the name and photo of his solicitor).
There is a danger of seeing what he briefly refers to as bullying as a wider cause; he just refers to it once, otherwise it is things done to him. And we have yet to be clear on his Asperger status.
I couldn't be more committed to the issues of bullying. After all, despite being very tall and very strong I was bullied right through my entire schooldays - but largely because my peers found they could stage-manage and trigger entertaining meltdowns, and also on my gullibility. I was never actually bullied in the conventional sense - never beaten up, never had money taken off me. I was bullied because the symptoms of my then unknown Asperger's made me susceptible. It still amounted to a truly grim day-to-day "existance".
I have pointed out on a number of threads my efforts to pursue this with the anti-bullying charities. Most of them didn't and possibly don't still recognise autistic spectrum as a factor. It also leads me to wonder whether psychologists and psychiatrists and other health workers properly understand the kind of bullying experienced by people on the spectrum.
While I agree many people at the able end report being bullied at school, the sad fact is those experts in psychology and psychology whatever don't count people at the able end of the spectrum. They think pill popping and CBT solves the main issues and anything else people in the able part of the spectrum experience is down to their inadequacy and failings. That's the tragic sum total of progress on autism.
Yes we ought to discuss what impacts bullying has on how adults on the spectrum cope. But its not happening. Those clever scientists, supposed to be addressing autism, don't care a toss about able adults. Sooner you wake up to that the better. And I don't think on this forum we are going to get enough information around which to discuss it.
That leaves my primary concern here, linking autism and bullying with intended mass murder. Its sensationalist, unsupportable and likely to contribute to the public perception of autism rather than achieve any benefit. Discuss it yes.
Banner headline it, please no.
For clarification:
On a later recording he said: “How the **** could anyone treat a fellow person like people’s treated me. That’s a question you want to be asking, that’s what drives people to do this. Look at all the ******* things in the past . . . Columbine, Virginia Tech, numbers of others. All because of bullying and how people are treated.’
By saying in the header "for those who can't handle it" shows that it isn't the normal reaction, but that it in extreme cases it might happen. This is not to say that lots of people with Asperger's would react in this way, it is a rare reaction whoever the victim. But it does happen.
Society needs to wake up to the fact that reports (http://www.theinformationdaily.com/2012/05/21/autism-in-2012-75-of-secondary-school-age-children-with-autism-bullied) show 85% of people at the high-functioning end report being bullied. Schools need to take it seriously and autism awareness needs to take a front seat.
We cannot brush this kind of thing under the carpet because it's rare, all individuals involved have their lives severely affected when this type of extreme reaction happens, and it also damages autism perceptions because people will start assuming people on the spectrum are all going to do things like that if pushed (and I have read about this type of reaction happening directly to an innocent Aspie on another forum following a shooting by someone on the spectrum).
I'm not sure why you feel the reason for someone being bullied makes it different, bullying someone for their disability is discrimination yes, but it's still bullying and bullying takes many forms. Not all people that take this extreme course of action from having been bullied are on the spectrum, and there were two others involved in this case, it doesn't state they were on the spectrum.
This is why we need to discuss it, to ensure autism perceptions are not damaged by the fact that the individual has Asperger's, and he cites other well-known incidents that were carried out by people with Asperger's. People need to know we don't all do that but they also need to know that bullying is very wrong, must be stopped and in some cases, has awful consequences (and that includes people committing suicide or having breakdowns not only going on shooting sprees). Bullies should be called to account.
These reports are already on the internet, so they are freely available (as you know the media jumps on anything to sensationalise it and this is already sensational), there will be many forums discussing it, autism ones in particular.
Please also bear in mind when starting a thread that these get onto the web, whereas the subsequent inputs on the thread don't seem to. I often find starts of threads from here pop up when searching for something else.
So its not just whether someone on here misinterprets this. The thread title and the link to the newspaper report are now "out there".
Where does bullying come into this? I only ask because its not in the article. It might be elsewhere (I shall have a look).
Be careful too with bullying. Conventional bullying may not be the same as the kind of bullying experienced by people on the spectrum, who are more likely to be targeted because they are unusually susceptible, such as being too literal or easily pushed towards a meltdown.
Conventional bullying has been identified with extreme responses. But I believe public perception of bullying gives people a false perspective on the kind of bullying experienced by people on the spectrum. The consequences of that are more likely to make someone more subdued or reclusive.
Also although the article says this individual has Asperger's Syndrome, I'm worried that a direct connection is being made between being on the spectrum and people who plan massacres. Are you suggesting if you bully a kid with Asperger's Syndrome this is what happens - because really and truly that's a most unfortunate connection.
This sort of thing then gets into public mythology, which makes it harder for lots of young people on the spectrum stigmatised by such an association.
It reminds me, it may not seem relevant, but it occurs to me now, of the television series Doomwatch in the 60s. One programme was about a very tall kid with a chromosome disorder. It got people into the idea that anyone tall was a potential homicidal maniac. Being an unusually tall kid I had a tought time because of it, as if there weren't enough problems
Please could we be more careful about this sort of thing.
