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ESA and possibly ADD

wishface
I'm sure this subject has been discussed to death, for that I can only apologise. For a couple of years now, doing a little research on my own, I think that I may have what a Work Psychologist I saw 01/2012 called a neuro diverse condition. I thought it might be Aspergers, it might be ADD possibly Dyspraxia. I'm by no means an expert nor a diagonistician. I could be completely wrong and, as i suspect my GP thinks (but doesn't say), lazy! When I first saw the Work Psychologist (a dwp person, i don't know much about the specific role as I'd never heard of them before) I was on JSA. Since then I started on the Work Programme which I am still on. She claimed she could test for Aspergers but relented to saying she could do some kind of test to see if I might have ADD. I realise that makes no sense, but it involved answering a load of puzzles like remembering number sequences backwards and spotting patterns and stuff. From what I could understand she said it was highly likely. I have yet to get an official diagnosis as such facilities are not local to me and I find travelling around cities rather scary. There is now a chance the local CMHT might do one. However the Work Programme treated me badly. They ignored the information regarding my mental health (even though no formal diagnosis) and refused to accept even the possibility of such problems - of any kind. I was told that without a support worker present they wouldn't countenance any such possibility. I made a complaint and have since changed advisers. Though the replacement is better they still admit they can't do anything. Basically the WP is rubbish. I was told that the main problem was because I was on JSA and that I should claim ESA. To cut a long and predictable story short that's what I did, six months later I have, unsurprisingly, failed the WCA. I've sent the GL24 form back to lodge an appeal. I'm not sure how that will work but I'm told that doing so reinstates my benefit until such time as they decide whether to change their mind (I doubt it, let's be honest). In the meantime I have to persuade my GP I need help. I suppose my point in posting is just to hear what other people think. I haven't found my GP to be terribly helpful or sympathetic and the system certainly isn't. ESA should be employment support, but it seems to work on the basis that, in order to get into the WRAG (my stated goal, i don't claim to be deserving of the support group) you need to also qualify for the support group. This doesn't make much sense to me. As a result I feel guilty as if I'm swinging the lead. But on the other hand, I just can't cope with the DWP. I find life difficult and I find dealing with society at times very hard. All the stuff you've heard before no doubt. I can't say for certain I'm an aspie/add/whatever, so I could be wrong. But just trying to get support and be taken seriously is horrendous. It's enough to make you ill even if you aren't. If anyone has any advice I'd be grateful, thanks.

  • Alex, the information I gave is based on what I was told by the CAB, and what I was able to find from the internet, at the time of my ESA appeal hearing.

    That was a few years ago, though, so perhaps things have changed, but I doubt they have to any great degree.

    Also, wishface, believe me, I understand your frustration - as I said, I was in the same position too, not so long ago - however, we, on these forums, can not do anything more than offer advice.

  • I was told this by the DWP as well as when I rang CAB last week. On Moneysavingexpert.com i was told the same.

  • Hi there,

    Do either of you have official sources to back up your claims, please? It would be useful to get this clarified.

    Thanks,

    Alex R

  • stranger said:

    Again, this is wrong. The law has changed now. A reconsideration much be done before they can reinstate your benefits.

    You are not correct here. This change hasn't come in and won't until October.

  • Scorpion0x17 said:

    Wishface,

    Firstly, ignore what stranger wrote, because it, frankly, is wrong. The whole point of the appeal is that it gives you the opportunity to put how it really is to a doctor and a judge who then make a decision. They do not make that decision solely based on how you were at the WCA, nor do they make it solely based on how you appear to be on the day of the appeal hearing. Rather they take all that, any evidence you present, and what you say all into account.

    It doesn't matter how you are now. The appeal is based on how you were at the time of the WCA. My information isn't wrong.

    Secondly, regarding you question about whther they can refuse to reinstate benefit, no, as soon as they receive your appeal request then they must reinstate basic rate ESA.

    Again, this is wrong. The law has changed now. A reconsideration much be done before they can reinstate your benefits.

  • The CAB locally doesn't host at the GP surgery. It would be immensely helpful if they did. They used to do surgeries at a library a little closer (though still not close enough - and you couldn't book appointments), but that stopped. I have found, with the CAB, the quality of their support is entirely dependent on the person you see. Some of them are useless, others seem to want to spend half an hour looking up the answer on the internet rather than having any actual training. I'm not knocking them overall, but it does seem very hit and miss.
  • Yes I realise these things are important, I'm not stupid! But I am not surrounded by advocates. In respect of being tested, until I can get a full assessment, the only test i have done is the 'Brown's Adult Attention Deficit' screening questionaire. It's very easy for people to say 'do this, do that', but they should know, on here, just how difficult it is to find these services. I can't pull them out of my backside or magic them up overnight. It is difficult enough just getting a GP appointment without having to wait for weeks on end, and even they don't have the time or knowledge to get into mental health matters. I have had absolutely no support at all. The Work Programme is a complete joke, the JC do nothing and I absolutely cannot cope with JSA and signing on again. Last time, when i was referred onto the WP (before they bullied me), I was told I'd only need to come in to do a quick sign; the WP would take care of all the jobsearch stuff and I would see the same person at the same time each fortnight. That never happened. Each time was a different advisor and wasn't a quick appointment, and each appointment was booked, there and then, a different time next time. That itself is something I find very difficult to deal with. ESA seems to be no better. The system says its for people that have problems and need help getting back to work (not that there are any decent jobs available), but then it kicks you off for not being unable to work. The whole thing is a complete mess; once you fail the WCA (i had no chance of passing it) your money is immediately stopped and you are left to your own devices. Where is the help? I don't have any specialist knowledge of what to do. I've never said for sure I have this condition or that. I'm not a doctor. All I know is there is something wrong and that I cannot deal with signing on/JSA, but that doesn't seem to be enough. I certainly don't need people on here implying that there's nothing wrong with me. I'm not putting myself through all this for a laugh!
  • Anonymous
    Anonymous

    Hello wishface

    I ve no intention of jumping down your throat...! I get frustrated when everything I try in able to help myself seems to fail. actually i get savagely cross about it all. Mostly probably because I feel misunderstood often - I realise that much of what I say gets mis interpretated and it drives me flippin nuts! Seriously though, i've got a great case worker at CAB and my only regret is that I did not go to them sooner. I live in a rural area but monthly surgeries are held at my local GP surgery. Failing that, they also offer phone support. My own diagnosis came about by luck and has been a mixed blessing in that diagnosis does not equal support - either proffessional or personal. it often all seems like a great long uphill slog - but if nothing else, autism gives us the gift of tenacity - we'll get there somehow eh?!Smile

  • Wishface,

    Firstly, ignore what stranger wrote, because it, frankly, is wrong. The whole point of the appeal is that it gives you the opportunity to put how it really is to a doctor and a judge who then make a decision. They do not make that decision solely based on how you were at the WCA, nor do they make it solely based on how you appear to be on the day of the appeal hearing. Rather they take all that, any evidence you present, and what you say all into account.

    Now, this is why it is so important to get an advocate, friend, or relative to go with you to the appeal hearing, if you can - because then it is not simply your word against that of the ATOS assessor.

    Secondly, regarding you question about whther they can refuse to reinstate benefit, no, as soon as they receive your appeal request then they must reinstate basic rate ESA.

  • Ok, you need to back off. I appreciate help, but I do not appreciate having someone jump down my throat anonymously. I have only just received the information that I failed the WCA. I have only just sent off the form. I haven't said anything about refusing to see people or agencies. However I don't live anywhere near a CAB so I can only visit them when I get the chance to go to town which is not very often becuase it's bloody expensive.

    There is no point seeing the Work Psychologist at this point. I am on the Work Programme and there is nothing they can do (because they told me). They will not be able to affect WCA decisions.

    I am also in the process of trying to secure a diagnosis and I don't know why you would assume that I am not. Unfortunately as you should know if you use this site such facilities are few and far between. There is a possibility of a local appointment, but that is by no means a guarantee. My issues do affect all of my life, why on earth would you think otherwise.

  • Wishface regardless of what you do in this situation,, you need an agency to assist you. Be it CAB, social worker or your GP,, you are trying to work all this out on your own and it is not working out. Not a good idea long-term. You should ask to be referred back to the work psychologist, if they have concerns for your possible neuro diverse condition, your GP must follow this up and refer you too a clinical psychologist for further review.

    Wishface we don't know you from adam, so unless you get a professional review you are a gob talking too an unsympathetic benefit system, were I can not see were there is any benefit to anyone. Quite honestly,  I have met people with the list of conditions all undiagnosed and personally most are full of stories. If you a pervasive condition especially aspergers it should have affect all your life and it is not something you just get for a benefits hearing. Again, I say get to your GP and referred for tests.

     

  • It doesn't matter what you're like now or your possible diagnosis. They only care about what you were like at the time of the WCA.

  • I understand that. I don't doubt they carry more weight, but I just couldn't wait until they became available. If that makes a difference and hurts my appeal, then that's something I'll just have to live with. Are there any grounds on which they might refuse or reject my appeal form (other than not filling it in correctly which I have)? IOW can they refuse to reinstate benefits?

  • The reason I suggested going to the CAB, wishface, is because they know what to write on the forms. Or, rather how to write the form. These things are not so much about what you write on the form as to how you write it. And the people at the CAB know how.

    Now, is it still worth you going to see them? I'd say yes, at the very least they'll be able to advise you about the appeal process, and they should help you find, if not provide you with, an advocate who can go to the appreal hearing with you (again, it's not so much about what you say as how you say it in the hearing).

    Also, regarding money, a soon as the DWP get your appeal application they should reinstate ESA basic rate.

  • Scorpion0x17 said:

    Wishface,

    If you haven't already, go to your local Citizens Advice Bureau.

    They will be able to help you with your appeal.

    I went through exactly what you're currently going through (and have been through (your experiences sound almost identical to mine)), and going to the CAB between failing in my ESA application and getting the Appeal Hearing was the best thing I could have done, and I wished I had gone to them for help from the start.

    Also try to find someone, a friend, family member, or advocate, who can go with you to the appeal hearing (again, the CAB should be able to help with this).

    (I won my Appeal, by the way)

    I've already sent the appeal form in. I know it looks better if the CAB fill it in for you though I don't like pretending I can't do it myself since I'm not arguing I can't fill in forms. But it's difficult for me to get to the nearest CAB as it's an expensive bus journey away, and of course my money has been stopped pending the return of that form. Can the CAB still help? I don't really know how this process works, the GL24 form is not really a big form, it just takes a signature with a little box asking for your reasons for appeal. I couldn't wait until i've spoken to a gp or to hear from the mental health assessment i had last week (i don't expect much from that either, and I don't know whether they'll be able to organise a diagnosis) because again i need that money to be reinstated. If they at least allowed a month's run on of your ESA when making these decisions that would be something. But the whole process is stacked against you. I suppose having filled that form in myself I'm screwed. Ironically the WCA wasn't too bad, but that's only because the waiting room only had one other person and wasn't busy and, despite what the, incredibly rude, receptionist said about having to wait over an hour I only had to wait a few minutes (the other person had to instead!). I knew what to expect from the assessment which was carried out by someone that was polite and friendly enough. That said, the process is about as diagnostic and as medical as a casual chat in a cafe. So of course my demeanour was translated as being stress free and fit for work.

  • Wishface,

    If you haven't already, go to your local Citizens Advice Bureau.

    They will be able to help you with your appeal.

    I went through exactly what you're currently going through (and have been through (your experiences sound almost identical to mine)), and going to the CAB between failing in my ESA application and getting the Appeal Hearing was the best thing I could have done, and I wished I had gone to them for help from the start.

    Also try to find someone, a friend, family member, or advocate, who can go with you to the appeal hearing (again, the CAB should be able to help with this).

    (I won my Appeal, by the way)

  • It is sad to read your post, it is very confusing at times with all the different benefits. Wishface, your literacy is very good. You made me laugh at the word "diagonistician",  NO offence but I did not realise there was such a person. Maybe ATOS is the skynet mainframe of the DWP.

    You seem to be in the main stream benefit system via Jobseekers Support Allowance(JSA), whereas employment support allowance(ESA) is more incapacity based.

    You can give them all the information under the sun, but you are in the job camp, it will not matter. Getting on a medical route will involve your doc and sicklines. If you are struggling with the DWP procedure it may show underlying issues, being able to cope or not coping gives you/them information on your status and condition.

    It is going to be a long struggle here, you need the help of a welfare officer from the local council and support from your GP or change of GP. You may wish to email your advisor at the DWP and tell them that things are not wholly right with you for the record.

    The way I see it,, is simple,, I had danced with the DWP, too there tune, I do totally what they say,, I have lost count of the courses and self serving organisation I have been throught but it just ends up with me in a cognitive heap,, with stress, anxiety and breakdown due to the environmental pressures pushed on me.

    It is a form of self-abuse I go through which the DWP is quite happy to help me with, trying too obey there instructions which are impossible due to my autism,  but lucky I have now people around me, a support worker, the social work and a welfare officer who will stop me "harming myself" by engaging directly with the DWP. Because at the end of the day, the DWP is an impersonal system which does not take into account the true reality of your illness, it is designed to push,, it is the weak that can not push back, that is how they assess by damage reports. Be careful or they will put you on daily signing.,